World of Warcraft: Current Year

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
There's a huge difference because all of you (in a general sense) have been playing the quest treadmill level game for over a decade now. It's now ingrained into your sense of "what I'm supposed to do". It hard for you to grasp anything different. By creating a different product where you're not A) constantly looking at an xp bar B) constantly searching for quests to grab, do, and turn in C) ignore everything around you and just work on efficiency because you're trained to ignore the quest line and work mechanically through everything; by creating something different you are changing player behavior.

By taking away what you typical concentrate on, it allows the (hopefully competent and good) developer to refocus your attention on something different. Story. Gameplay mechanics. Rewards. Puzzles. Exploration. There are examples of all of this gameplay out there already in many games. UO, Darkfall, EVE, TSW, a myriad of survival games, Minecraft etc.

Just because no major successful game has done it, doesn't mean it would work. Because it has worked. Do say it doesn't work well in an MMO is asinine because it already as in a lot of different places.

Ever play GW2? There was definitely a group of people who loved exploration, puzzles and all of that. Imagine a game where you do that without an xp bar hanging over your head? That xp bar is always the driving factor for a lot of player behavior. Even people who aren't racing levels or care about speed have said "Hey I can even level while exploring!" The key phrase there "I can even level". Take that out of the equation.

Anyway, call it semantics if you like, it is in a way I guess. But I think redirecting the expectations, behavior and routines of the player would be a pretty refreshing experience. But yes, these are all different methods of advancement, progression and power measurement.

I'll leave this subject alone with this statement: Go look at the people who now "love" SWTOR because you can level strictly through the story quests. They have effectively taken out the leveling process of an xp bar and replaced it with a narrative. They were told to ignore the xp bar and enjoy just the story. It's a highly enjoyable experience. Why not gauge player power, experience just based on progression in a Story and build your game around that? Just an example.
I admit you are correct. I just never had the pleasure to play a game that focuses on these aspects, maybe because I never gave a damn about levels or raids. For me MMOs have always been about huge virtual worlds to explore and enjoy, sometimes with friends, sometimes alone, sometimes with strangers. Never rushed to cap, never looked for an optimized path, etc.
I see what you mean tho and I'd fully support such game design.
 

DavivMcD

Peasant
404
37
The problem is, levels give you context as to what content is appropriate for you. You could take that away, but then you're left with 2 options:

1) All content is available to everyone. No progression, other than your own actual skill at the game getting better. Works great for short single player games, horrible idea for an MMO.

2) You leave it up to the player to run around randomly and guess what they can do, what they can't, what will give them appropriate rewards, what will be too easy and suck any fun out of the story elements by making it feel trivial, etc. Any metric you give the player to let them gauge the content appropriate for them, whether it's skill points or achievements or the size of their quest journal, is just an obfuscated version of levels. The very first fucking thing players in the community will do is make a 3rd party website or mod if possible that sums up their total strength and represents it as a single, simple number.

I haven't played any of the games Draegen mentioned except EVE. And guess what, EVE totally has levels! In fact I'd say it has 2 separate levels you have 'hanging over your head' if you want to accomplish anything in that game: ISK and skill points. If those don't count as what Draegen doesn't want in an MMO then I don't know what the fuck he's talking about. Maybe he's just mad about the XP bar always being on the screen and would be fine if there was a hotkey to trigger it hidden/shown.
 

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
3,389
141
Are there many 10-19 or 20-29 WSGs on emerald dream?
I just started on the kronos server in the hopes of having some fun with low lvl vanilla battlegrounds but there are never really any matches. I am a crazy person who loves the pvp in early world of warcraft but not the pve.
I have no clue on this one. The server has a pretty big max level PVP scene, but even then I've always been a PVE guy so can't really comment. My understanding is that in general the server is PVP based. There certainly aren't a ton of PVE guilds making progress on either side.

WoW Realm US-Emerald Dream :: WoWProgress - World of Warcraft Rankings

I'm in On Cooldown on my Warlock, Slayth?, most of the time. Happy to help anyone with gold starting out but I'm only on Alliance side.

Like I said above though, the server is RP but I think most of the heavy RP crowd sticks to Moonguard. I enjoy the server simply because it's pretty lively from a world perspective. A lot of ganking which is kind of the norm, but you will see decent world pvp and that's pretty non existent on any normal PVP server i've played on since after vanilla.
 

kitsune

Golden Knight of the Realm
624
35
I haven't really followed 6.2's development since I unsubbed but was wondering, how ready does the patch feel? When can we expect the content update, if you have to guess?

Also goddamn it's really over 6 months for the first content patch this time around. What the hell were they thinking
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
8,394
21,380
Feels pretty not-ready-at-all, since their loot progression idea sounds like someone scribbled it on a napkin while they were at the pub, and everyone started hi-five'ing.
 

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
7,956
9,650
I haven't really followed 6.2's development since I unsubbed but was wondering, how ready does the patch feel? When can we expect the content update, if you have to guess?
Background download went 2 weeks ago, so the art content is basically done. They're still balancing some stuff, so 2 more weeks.

(the current build isn't yet labelled "Release", so it's not considered ready for the launch hotfix avalanche)
 

Rime

<Donor>
2,638
1,613
Raids are looking good (from what I have tested - 5 bosses) on the PTR. Loot is going to suck, however, with the change to how it is being handled in 6.2. I really, really, REALLY miss reforging.

6.2 better come soon, however... most of the guilds on my medium population server are on 'extended' break until it launches.
 

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
I came back since I have enough gold to play the game for free for like 5 months so why not.

I'm thinking of just faction changing to alliance from horde, all I do is lose pvp and get called a faggot constantly always by orc warriors lmao. Not that I think alliance would be any better, but at least I'd win some fucking BGs. Also, dat +rep bonus on humans gives me a boner
 

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,647
1,187
Raids are looking good (from what I have tested - 5 bosses) on the PTR. Loot is going to suck, however, with the change to how it is being handled in 6.2. I really, really, REALLY miss reforging.

6.2 better come soon, however... most of the guilds on my medium population server are on 'extended' break until it launches.
Same here I was hoping the next PTR release would be a release candidate but clearly thats not the case. I am guessing at this point probably see it end of june or early july. Oh well more time for me to dink around in league of legends I guess.
 

Foggy

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,243
4,815
It looks like they have starting balancing the classes. A host of set bonus and class changes just hit the PTR.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
Same here I was hoping the next PTR release would be a release candidate but clearly thats not the case. I am guessing at this point probably see it end of june or early july. Oh well more time for me to dink around in league of legends I guess.
I would be surprised if it didn't come out the 23rd.
 

kaid

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,647
1,187
If it does that would be pretty great. Honestly with my moving to a new house chaos the last few weeks I am semi glad it did not release already this way by the time it comes out I will be fully settled in/unpacked and ready to get back to normal activities.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
If you have some sort of guide (like Zygor) then there's no way dungeons would be competitive with questing. If you're doing RAF and have fast queue specs (tank/healer), then dungeons will approach [efficient] questing exp rates.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
Question; is it faster to level an alt via dungeons or questing?
If you have full heirlooms and have the ability to tank or heal, dungeons are soo much faster then questing. If you are dps, quest while you queue for dungeons. Stay away from battlegrounds, the exp sucks.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
If you have full heirlooms and have the ability to tank or heal, dungeons are soo much faster then questing. If you are dps, quest while you queue for dungeons. Stay away from battlegrounds, the exp sucks.
One nice thing about dungeons (these days) is they all have 2-3 (a few have more) Dungeon quests. These are about 3x the amount of experience a single, normal quest would give at the same level. With RAF you'll never have to do the same dungeon twice and can just continuously do dungeons with new quests. I don't believe that's accurate for non-RAF exp rates.
 

Rime

<Donor>
2,638
1,613
Quest XP is the way to go in WoD. No dungeon quests really, really neuters the amount of XP you get from dungeons.

15-90 is relatively quick with dungeons, however.