World of Warcraft: Current Year

Rescorla_sl said:

If you don't do mythic/heroic raids in WoW, the game is boring as shit now because it's been dumbed down so badly.

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You are too stupid to understand that the equivalence of raids in vanilla and TBC are now heroic and mythic. Raiding on the level of LFR and normal versions of the raids were not offered at that time. This is entirely new level of content meant for the super casual and/or bad players so they can experience the raid game in some form. Try to be more properly informed about the game before criticizing it.

Kara might be the best raid ever made in the history of MMORPGs. Comparing any raid to it just isn't fair, though Kara is insanely easy compared to what comes out these days. Though HFC is actually a fantastic raid and ranks up there with the best in the history of WoW. Also, if nobody can understand your points, then you are shitty at communicating.

Arcaus_sl said:

So instead of learning an encounter you let a computer tell you what to do and then claimed it was easy. Good job?

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Was my point so hard to understand? I didn't need to bother learning the encounter beforehand because the LFR difficulty has been dumbed down so badly that I could successfully tank a LFR my first time with crap green/blue gear by just following DBM instructions. There was zero sense of accomplishment and since LFRs were all I would be able to run as a casual player, I unsubscribed without a second thought. How many of the 3-4 million players who quit are casual players like me?

Rescorla_sl said:

You are more than welcome to say whatever you want to.

If you played vanilla and TBC and also played WoD, then you should know the game was more challenging back then. Karazahn may be the best raid dungeon ever designed. Anything in WoD come close to replicating that experience?

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As someone who has killed Ragnaros pre Blackwing all the way to killing Mythic Archimonde all I can say is you are fucking stupid as shit. The only thing harder back then was corralling 40 people through raids and being able to stay awake to farm enough Graveblossom to fucking do your damn Lotheb kill during the week from SM.

You know what would happen if guilds came across fights as "complex" like KT 40, or Kil'Jaeden or 4 horseman (war cockblock aside) now with relative damage and gear? They would be solved and down in 2 hours

Foggy_sl said:

You are too stupid to understand that the equivalence of raids in vanilla and TBC are now heroic and mythic. Raiding on the level of LFR and normal versions of the raids were not offered at that time. This is entirely new level of content meant for the super casual and/or bad players so they can experience the raid game in some form. Try to be more properly informed about the game before criticizing it.

Kara might be the best raid ever made in the history of MMORPGs. Comparing any raid to it just isn't fair, though Kara is insanely easy compared to what comes out these days. Though HFC is actually a fantastic raid and ranks up there with the best in the history of WoW. Also, if nobody can understand your points, then you are shitty at communicating.

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You are too stupid to understand I was a hardcore raider in vanilla and TBC but as I have pointed out several times now, I don't have the time required to devote to hardcore raiding anymore. At some point is a lightbulb going to go off in your head? For those of us who are casual players now, WoW has been dumbed down to the point it has become boring, which is one of the reasons several million players have quit playing.

Rescorla forgot that MOP's talent revamp left a lot of classes with gobs of shit that took up more hotkeys than could be bound on any keyboard a human was capable of operating with one hand and that's why abilities were pruned in WOD. That and every class in PVP felt like it had 150 points worth of talents with all the CC and utility cooldowns because so many prior talent choices were baked into the classes across all specs. And on top of that, they added a bunch of new abilities to flesh out all of the new talent tiers - many of which were nothing more than an extra button to push for 2% more damage. People didn't like it, Blizzard didn't like it, they addressed it. Was it perfect for every class/spec? Certainly not. But it seems to have worked out fine for most. They cut the bloat back to Cata levels, not fucking vanilla. Most shit is still more involved than it was in BC or even LK.

I see that you now want to change your argument to something along the lines of "oh, I mean there should only be one difficulty level instead of all of these options. Because once I do it on the easiest possible mode I feel like nothing else counts." That's a popular argument. But almost nobody else is making these games that way any more. If they do, they wind up with a goddamn civil war on their hands between the shitbucket hardcore and the functionally retarded button mashers and everyone in between.

Look at Vanilla/Burning Crusade, before there was LFR and hard modes. Hard as fuck, then nerfed. Broken as fuck, then nerfed. Hard as fuck again... and then nerfed again. Wipe 500 times to M'uru, kill him two fucking weeks before he gets nerfed into a joke. Was that honestly any better than just giving us a difficulty switch?

Hell, I've never done Hellfire on LFR or normal. There was no incentive, other than practice or finishing my legendary faster. (as a result I still don't have a ring. oops.) But it was rewarding because my first kill on Archimonde and everything else was when we killed them on heroic. That's the difficulty setting I chose. Mythic is just something to do when the loot runs dry, I couldn't care less how far we get. If we dead end, we dead end. I'm far from hardcore, but I sure as hell know better than to run LFR one time and then dash here to declare that the game is "so dumbed down" out of total ignorance and then have to backpedal like a madman.

Rescorla_sl said:

You are too stupid to understand I was a hardcore raider in vanilla and TBC but as I have pointed out several times now, I don't have the time required to devote to hardcore raiding anymore. At some point is a lightbulb going to go off in your head? For those of us who are casual players now, WoW has been dumbed down ton the point it has become boring, which is one of the reasons several million players have quit playing.

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If you were a casual player back then then you were limited to maybe MC and BWL by the time TBC came out, then heroic dungeons + Kara and Gruul by the time WoTLK came out. All they did was make shit accessable so you could literally see shit, it doesnt mean the game got easier, it means it got accessible to the PUG heroes of yesteryear.

Rescorla_sl said:

You are more than welcome to say whatever you want to.

If you played vanilla and TBC and also played WoD, then you should know the game was more challenging back then. Karazahn may be the best raid dungeon ever designed. Anything in WoD come close to replicating that experience?

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Lol I didn't see this one. Oh for the love of fuck you have got to be kidding me.

On one hand... Rescorla... on the other hand I did really like Karazhan.

Kara was great but it was never hard

Res seems to forget that back in the day Wow was shiney new and fresh. Now it is 10+ years later and the raid tits are sagging, that thing wow used to do with the ice cubes is just played out, and after so many expansions it is hotdog in a hallway time. Sure wow lets more people into the raids overall and the skill level might have gone up, but that doesn't change the fact that it is old as fuck now.

Old wow might be remembered as harder because of changes to the player, 10 years of railing that pixelated punanny has left it's scars on the player and the played.

Damn I think I need to get laid.

Okay, I sympathize with "LFR is so stupidly easy that it gives no sense of accomplish at all for anyone." This is true.

However, the rest is bullshit because a casual absolutely does not have to stop at LFR. All raids, aside from mythic, are now cross realm. Better yet, they are flex - meaning you can bring between 10-30 people and only have to rough out a ratio of dps:healers. And there is even an in game tool where you can sign up for these raids and as long as you aren't an absolute fuckwit you can experience the content at a level that is much more satisfying.

When all of the above was a new thing I cleared through SOO flex and normal completely as a solo pug. I won't lie, it was often one of the most frustrating things I've ever done, but it sure as hell was more entertaining than just doing LFR and calling it done. And I got a ton of guild offers but I was trying to stay away from having any kind of schedule at the time.

So yeah, you certainly don't have to choose between LFR or hardcore poopsocker. That's total bullshit. There is all sorts of room in between. I raid 9 hours a week for fuck's sake.

Kreugen_sl said:

I see that you now want to change your argument to something along the lines of "oh, I mean there should only be one difficulty level instead of all of these options. Because once I do it on the easiest possible mode I feel like nothing else counts." That's a popular argument. But almost nobody else is making these games that way any more. If they do, they wind up with a goddamn civil war on their hands between the shitbucket hardcore and the functionally retarded button mashers and everyone in between.

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Every person so far who has vehemently disagreed with me has had to make up shit and attack me for something I never even said. I sure as hell am not changing my argument and where the fuck did I say there should only be one difficulty level instead of having an option? Let me repeat myself one more time for those of you unwilling to read basic English. For those of us casuals who no longer can do hardcore raiding, the game has become boring as fuck as. Miele said it much better than I did earlier today.

World of Warcraft - WoD - 11/13/14 - Page 866

You said the game was harder in Vanilla, it was not.

"For those of us casuals who no longer can do hardcore raiding, the game has become boring as fuck as."

So you are saying that for a significant period of time you DID enjoy the game without being a hardcore raider, and it's the game that has changed?

Because that's different than saying you no longer have the time to play the game at a level you find satisfying. Because only of those things is the games fault.

I dont think the game itself was harder in Vanilla/TBC - However i do think the requirements for serious raiding were different - I remember the first rag kill and AQ opening - we had to farm like crazy - raiding was a 24/7 thing as you had to go out and acquire an assload of materials for all the pots and such youd take with you - and even the firewater from furbies. I also feel the game was a bit less DDR style back then than it is now - and 4H is still my favorite encounter in the game.

However its too hard to compare the game now to the game then - Different raid difficulties also make that comparison hard as well. For better or worse, the game as far as raiding is nothing like it used to be - and i dont see raiding as being harder back then, but i do think it required more dedication to make yourself ready.

I ran out of repair money in early AQ, because I hated doing all the stupid "work" shit required to acquire gold. I only enjoyed dungeons and raiding. I liked battlegrounds a bit. I couldn't give less of a fuck about everything else - I didn't rep grind, or do holiday event fluff, or farm for rare vanity items, or work on achievements, or do challenge mode dungeons, or the brawler's guild, or pet battles, and so on. I do the parts I like and largely ignore the rest.

Which is why I ask Rescola to admit if he EVER enjoyed being casual in WoW. Because it took all the way until the introduction of flex and cross realm raiding before I could enjoy it semi-casually. If I didn't have the time to play I quit, I didn't cry about it and blame the game. (it was my own lazy unwillingness to just move to an EST-friendly guild. I like sleep better than WoW, sorry FoH)

He said he ran LFR and quit. He made no mention of trying to pug normal/heroic. Raids are available all day long.