World of Warcraft: Current Year

I'm confused about what part of what GC says is wrong...

I agree the rep isn't alt friendly, sure. I almost always ended up with my geared out the ass alts at the end tier of the xpac and you need none but maybe the new rep to get geared for lfr. There's no shoulder enchant...and charms are from new area only now...

Yeah, what was GC supposed to say? "Yep, your single piece of anecdotal evidence comparing two different points in two different expansion cycles is valid. We should have pressed the 'FUN ALTS' button instead of 'NOT FUN ALTS'." It's twitter. If you want to find better examples of GC retardation stick to the forums or official blogs.

During Cata I basically played a bunch when the expansion came out, a bunch when the last patch came out and I could level and gear up my army of alts super easy, and very little in between. I plan on the exact same thing in Panda, and I'm fine with that.

Outside of SPA there are no required factions for alts to gear up on. LFD/scenario to 460. MSV to 470, HOOF & TOES to 480, TOT from then on. Sure you probably will do tillers for the plots for sellable trade mats. You'll probably do DP and Isle for charms and a couple quick upgrades to get to 480 faster, but it's definitely not required.

Any alts with professions actually need them; my tailor/enchanter needed revered lotus to get to exalted shado-pan/august celestials eventually. Cata let you buy the recipes with just that professions mats. That quote also had shit all to do with reps. They've already said after the last quarter findings that there is less engagement by casuals and less alts this expansion. So anecdotal in that guy's example yea, but it's still true across the board. Getting an alt involved in anything takes a considerably longer time than before, and the traditional route to getting an alt into raids was abbreviated in such a way that it can be hard to fill gaps just to reach ilvls. (Especially if you reached 90 in kun'lai like my alts did, where your blues are even only 410 ilvl. No wonder they made Gate a normal dungeon (like I bitched forever about) because with the lower exp needed people are going to find themselves at 90 with a woefully short ilvl.)

Also, of course there are BETTER examples of GC retardation, and obviously PR being what it is he probably can't say what he MIGHT want to say, but they need to just come out and admit this shit is flawed. From the getgo it was easier just to gear up an alt to begin with, that's why by the time DS came out, people were able to get through everything mighty fast. (Also from what I remember there was either no ilvl needed specifically for DS or it was so low that it was easy to get quickly.)

People are just gearing up mains and quitting when that patch's shit is done. That's the issue they need to fix. And if you're still spouting off that "reputations aren't necessary" this late in the thread, you haven't been paying attention. One of the major things people with alts are bitching about is that they'll gain VP and be unable to spend it. That's amazingly stupid.

People are just gearing up mains and quitting when that patch's shit is done. That's the issue they need to fix. And if you're still spouting off that "reputations aren't necessary" this late in the thread, you haven't been paying attention. One of the major things people with alts are bitching about is that they'll gain VP and be unable to spend it. That's amazingly stupid.

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Because it's worthwhile spending the VP on any faction other than SPA? Be realistic. There's 0 need for 496 rep-gear now unless you're filling a small slot for an ilvl boost to get into ToT. The moment you can queue for ToT, by the end of the first 3 wings, you're Friendly. That gives you almost 4k VP worth of items to purchase. Next week, you hit honored, enjoy some more VP gear that you obviously cannot have yet because of the fun 1k-per-week VP limit. Repeat all the way to exalted, not to mention getting 502 gear from the LFR itself.

Reps provided two gateways, and one is null and void now. First was a gateway to entry for the first raids, and something to spend VP on to fill in missing slots or for the casual. Second was to gate professions arbitrarily. No one has a good use for VP right now with the exception of a few select pieces (trinkets, neck for some, rings for some). That's a problem, sure, but the prior content is largely irrelevant.

LadyVex_sl said:

Any alts with professions actually need them; my tailor/enchanter needed revered lotus to get to exalted shado-pan/august celestials eventually. Cata let you buy the recipes with just that professions mats. That quote also had shit all to do with reps. They've already said after the last quarter findings that there is less engagement by casuals and less alts this expansion. So anecdotal in that guy's example yea, but it's still true across the board. Getting an alt involved in anything takes a considerably longer time than before, and the traditional route to getting an alt into raids was abbreviated in such a way that it can be hard to fill gaps just to reach ilvls. (Especially if you reached 90 in kun'lai like my alts did, where your blues are even only 410 ilvl. No wonder they made Gate a normal dungeon (like I bitched forever about) because with the lower exp needed people are going to find themselves at 90 with a woefully short ilvl.)

Also, of course there are BETTER examples of GC retardation, and obviously PR being what it is he probably can't say what he MIGHT want to say, but they need to just come out and admit this shit is flawed. From the getgo it was easier just to gear up an alt to begin with, that's why by the time DS came out, people were able to get through everything mighty fast. (Also from what I remember there was either no ilvl needed specifically for DS or it was so low that it was easy to get quickly.)

People are just gearing up mains and quitting when that patch's shit is done. That's the issue they need to fix. And if you're still spouting off that "reputations aren't necessary" this late in the thread, you haven't been paying attention. One of the major things people with alts are bitching about is that they'll gain VP and be unable to spend it. That's amazingly stupid.

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Enchanters and tailors are pretty much the only ones who have any useful recipes off rep vendors, but that has jack and shit to do with gearing up. Also, with first LFD/Scenario of the day and commissions after you cap tillers you can get 2k rep free every day for any vp rep you want. Or go hunt zandalari warscouts until you have whatever rep level you want. It really doesn't matter since it's all temporary purples at best. Right now you don't need reps to gear up other than SPA. Not a single one. All the gear you will ultimately keep wearing is VP off SPA or drops from TOT.

LadyVex_sl said:

(Especially if you reached 90 in kun'lai like my alts did, where your blues are even only 410 ilvl. No wonder they made Gate a normal dungeon (like I bitched forever about) because with the lower exp needed people are going to find themselves at 90 with a woefully short ilvl.)

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Just hit level 90 last night on my Druid, and this is exactly what happened. Would you suggest I skip over to Dread Wastes, and do all the quests there for the better gear? or just spend 1k on ilvl 450 pvp gear?

PVP gear/cheap 376 boe epics.

We had guilds fighting to open AQ but we were still the 3rd server to do so worldwide. Anyways we can leave it alone, I enjoyed it and you didn't.

Moonarchia_sl said:

Enchanters and tailors are pretty much the only ones who have any useful recipes off rep vendors, but that has jack and shit to do with gearing up. Also, with first LFD/Scenario of the day and commissions after you cap tillers you can get 2k rep free every day for any vp rep you want. Or go hunt zandalari warscouts until you have whatever rep level you want. It really doesn't matter since it's all temporary purples at best. Right now you don't need reps to gear up other than SPA. Not a single one. All the gear you will ultimately keep wearing is VP off SPA or drops from TOT.

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Realize this is just now though; most people with alts or who were sick of the grind have already given up.

Even then, not "needing" it specifically should not be a question. It shouldn't be gated, because it was the method to gear up people were used to. You get rewarded with something you cannot spend. Simple. This whole nonsense of "not necessary" is hogwash.

Noodleface_sl said:

We had guilds fighting to open AQ but we were still the 3rd server to do so worldwide. Anyways we can leave it alone, I enjoyed it and you didn't.

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Enjoyed was one thing; advocating its return was a wholly other thing. I can't imagine that you can't acknowledge it caused a ton of issues and shouldn't be repeated.

Mainly I'm just angsty; I found it hard repeat the things in previous ep's that I did - maxing out professions, leveling alts for raid use or personal, kitting out an alt set for my main, etc. Everything had such an extended grind, and most of it came from practices they either reversed from previous expanions or created for this one. Instead of causing people to stay subbed longer, it alienated them. These "half measures" they've introduced are just salt on the wound.

LadyVex_sl said:

And just in case people forgot what a clusterfuck it was, these were some of the more minor things necessary for the AQ gate opening:

MINERS:
90,000 Copper Bars <- BOTH SIDES
22,000 Tin Bars <- HORDE ONLY
28,000 Iron Bars <- ALLIANCE ONLY
18,000 Mithril Bars <- HORDE ONLY
24,000 Thorium Bars <- ALLIANCE ONLY

HERBALISTS:
96,000 Peacebloom <- HORDE ONLY
19,000 Firebloom <- HORDE ONLY
26,000 Purple Lotus <- BOTH SIDES
20,000 Arthas Tears <- ALLIANCE ONLY
33.000 Stranglekelp <- ALLIANCE ONLY

SKINNERS:
180,000 Light Leather <- ALLIANCE ONLY
110,000 Medium Leather <- ALLIANCE ONLY
60,000 Heavy Leather <- HORDE ONLY
80,000 Thick Leather <- BOTH SIDES
60,000 Rugged Leather <- HORDE ONLY

COOKS:
10,000 Lean Wolf Steaks <- HORDE ONLY
20,000 Roast Raptor <- ALLIANCE ONLY
14,000 Rainbow Fin Albacore <- ALLIANCE ONLY
17,000 Spotted Yellowtail <- BOTH SIDES
10,000 Baked Salmon <- HORDE ONLY

ANYONE:
800,000 Linen Bandages <- ALLIANCE ONLY
600,000 Silk Bandages <- ALLIANCE ONLY
250,000 Wool Bandages <-- HORDE ONLY
250,000 Mageweave Bandages <- HORDE ONLY
400,000 Runecloth Bandages <- BOTH SIDES

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Hahaha. I'm reading this and did we really farm all that shit? It's worse than I thought.

Whenever I think back of old school raiding and 'the good old days', I remember AQ fondly. Good times were had, headphones blew up on first C'Thun kill... but I ran AQ40 the other day for Kalimdor's Revenge and reading this thread... fuck, what a bad zone. I was talking to a mate recently, he didn't believe me when I said that potions, elixirs and flasks stacked! "That is so harsh". Yeah.
I never understood AQ either. In comparsion to Naxx, it felt so rushed and Blizzard hardly seemed to know what they were doing at the time. For some reason we had issues on Huhuran... another fucking resist fight. I was one of the soaks so had to farm Maraudon for NR trinkets and craft some more resist gear. Still, it wasn't that bad. C'Thun trash was. What were they thinking when they put that in? Only to reach an unkillable C'Thun. Worst of all? They put +spell damage on Striker's gear... for arcane shots. We hardly ever used it.
But as much as Naxx gets praise, it was a brutal zone for progression guilds. Most of the bosses were fun, especially Patchwerk and Heigan. 4HM was brutal. Gear your tanks in 3/9 T3 and hope for no resists.

Back on topic though, MoP. I quit right after Ulduar was released. I played in a World Top 10/20 at the time, and Wrath was a huge let down for me, personally. Raiding Ulduar on PTR burned me out, so I quit.
I recently started playing again with some collegues and liking it so far. Levelling was pretty cool, all the zones are nice and some great quest lines. However, it really feels like a totally different game. This x-realm LFR and dungeons thing. You group up, kill shit, everyone leaves. It's pretty efficient but there's no social aspect whatsoever anymore. Most people don't say hi or k tnx bye anymore. It's fucking terrible.
What annoys me the most about MoP - besides the super oversimplified gameplay - is the gated rep. I have no interest in joining another progression guild so I am stuck with crafted stuff and LFR. What a pain in the ass. Took me 2/3 weeks (maybe, idk?) to get revered with Golden Lotus and now I have to grind some more dailies for some other shit faction? Ugh, terrible design.

They got the game right in BC, maybe add some minor elements from Wotlk/Cata/MoP, be done with resilience (fuck you PvP faggots) and you have yourselves an amazing game.


Also: ganking world buffed guilds on their Loatheb kill night was awesome.

Seananigans_sl said:

You know your MMO has problems when every single player has severe alt concerns. The fact that alts are so common in this (bastardized) genre is pretty telling.

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I am so fascinated by people playing alts. When did this happen? I played through the beginning of WOTLK and people having 2-3 alts was rare (I think?). Now people have like 10 alts, fully geared and do it easily. Fuck how do you do that? I was never able to play more than one character at a time.

Weird, and it's never really been replicated in another game before.

I usually have one alt. had two in wrath. I never really got alts. I am starting to like them with account wide achieves.

I'd rather spend that time playing other games. I use my guild for other profs. Isn't that sort of the point?

I usually have one alt. had two in wrath. I never really got alts. I am starting to like them with account wide achieves.

I'd rather spend that time playing other games. I use my guild for other profs. Isn't that sort of the point?

LadyVex_sl said:

Realize this is just now though; most people with alts or who were sick of the grind have already given up.

Even then, not "needing" it specifically should not be a question. It shouldn't be gated, because it was the method to gear up people were used to. You get rewarded with something you cannot spend. Simple. This whole nonsense of "not necessary" is hogwash.

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I agree that rep gating is shit, which is why I want rep to be account wide. I got my hunter exalted with everything because I am OCD that way, and my tailor/enc got all the recipes, but my monk has done fuck all for rep and is at 486 as of this morning. The jp -> hp for full 476 (minus weapon) + new 458 recipes make gearing dead easy at this point. Aside from weapons and trinkets MSV is entirely superfluous at this point. You can get 470 without setting foot in it. HOOF and TOES are crazy fast loot pin~atas if you get a key off a rare in Isle and run trove for elder charms.

VP can be converted to CP 1:1 for 493 gear if you want to get technical about it too. If my monk hadn't broken 480 this morning I would have done just that.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

IIRC the resources were not even a gate on any real server. Weren't we time clock blocked on the whole thing to include needing multiple resets for the quest line?

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Just one BWL reset, it was the resources cockblocking the opening. I just went through my guilds news archives to check some dates, and we have:

01/03/2006: Patch 1.9 hits, quest line available
01/09/2006: Quest complete except for the red shard (have to wait on BWL reset to do the speed clear)
01/11/2006 (Day after Tuesday reset): Scepter complete
01/22/2006: First server (Medivh) opens gates
02/16/2006: My server (Lightbringer) opens gates (as stated in a previous post, Horde on my server gave no fucks so we had to farm most of their materials too).

Also IIRC there was like a three day wait after you finished turning in all the mats, before the gong was available (NPCs said something about having to move all the resources to Silithus).