World of Warcraft: Current Year
- Thread starter hodj
- Start date
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,643
- 16,699
The problem with this expansion is they essentially made it very single player feeling. You have your own sustainable town now complete with mine, herb garden, and profession buildings. You can do everything you mentioned by sitting in your town all week and leaving once a week by flying from your home almost completely to the raid zone and then going home when its done. If you have the money you can even put an AH in your town, but if you don't you can just use the armory app.
They neutered gathering professions, the removal of flying feels backwards as fuck, and highmaul was entirely uninspiring for a launch raid.
All that said, I'm enjoying it. Being older now with a family I can't raid 6 nights a week or whatever so when I log in I like my time to be spent productively and I can easily do that. For the more hardcore there is throw-your-head-against-the-wall-mythic raiding, but if you pay any attention here you'll see the most hardcore are almost all fizzling out.
Its not for everyone, but I'm enjoying it.
I like the no flying bit. Makes the world a bit more real. Gathering professions have always been stupid as long as it was always running around collecting static spawn nodes.
As a new player at 100 it still feels mmoish. Pugging open world bosses, shitty large scale PvP.
Once you get past all that and you're just raiding from your garrison I agree 100%.
As a new player at 100 it still feels mmoish. Pugging open world bosses, shitty large scale PvP.
Once you get past all that and you're just raiding from your garrison I agree 100%.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 8,494
- 10,705
Nope. Instead, you're sitting AFK in your own garrison after sending out a bunch of NPC followers who bring you back higher level gear than you can raid on your own.
Although I enjoy city/outpost/whatever management games, this one is, unfortunately, only a pale shadow of what you could do with the concept, and, what's worse, it cut into the rest of the game in ways I didn't expect when the expansion launched. I think it's telling that my druid herbalist/miner never goes out, and, for the very first time ever, my leatherworker did ding 700 before maxing skinning.
I think the management mini-game has potential, but as a guild-wide management mini-game rather than a single-player one. When we prepare for raid and are grouped, I see a lot of colored dots on my minimap, yet I don't see any of them in front of me. We should meet all the time in the garrison, but we don't. And they know it, witness the 6.1 "visit your friend's garrisons" incentives (use tower portals, pick dailies, etc).
The main problem is, of course, the fact that the garrison is a one-shot game. It's purely intended to support the Warlords of Draenor expansion, and be forgotten and laid fallow, your followers forlorn and abandoned, once the next expansion releases. They've explicitely said so, and they even added that they did not have plans, at the moment, to have a Garrison 2.0 for the next expansion. And, as a garrison, that works ok. We're going to move on, the story of Draenor played out, and the garrison's usefulness story-wise exhausted. If you had Guild Fortresses, however, it would be harder to justify abandoning your headquarters. But on a game that is predicated in reseting completely everything every 2 years, that doesn't work. Witness the problem of guild achievements and perks, which they couldn't reset, couldn't extend, and decide ultimately to scrap in flavor of "flatter guilds". A permanent Guild Fortress would suffer from those problems, so the onus now on Blizzard is to figure out a way to make a guild garrison that feels ok for one expansion, and can be justified when you abandon it.
For a game that has a broad audience and has the biggest userbase of "previous players" its a smart business decision to reset the game every year. It gets players to come back and feel like the can catch up and be on equal footing. Like I just came back from not having played since WOTLK and I don't have to go back and play that stupid farm game with dailies everyone did during the last expansion. If I had to come back, level to 100, make a garrison, level followers, and THEN also have to do farming stuff, I would just give up.
Most players who don't give a shit about the philosophical debate of what an MMO is and should be or whatever Dumar wants it to be. They just want a fun game to play with their friends. Resets do this for the most part.
Most players who don't give a shit about the philosophical debate of what an MMO is and should be or whatever Dumar wants it to be. They just want a fun game to play with their friends. Resets do this for the most part.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 8,494
- 10,705
I don't really object to the "reset everything come 7.0" part. I object to the "we don't have any garrison at all planned for 7.0" part, seeing as I like the core idea. Even if I disagree with the details of how it is right now, I love the garrison concept.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
And its not like there are not a few ways to fly if you want to do so for short periods of time. Between the gadgets from the engineering building and the feather from the inn quest I can fly from my garrison out to highmaul or close to it without much problem.
kaid
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 4,647
- 1,187
I think its probably a more of a matter they are going to try to take the parts they liked from garrison and do something else that incorporates them. Just look at pandarias farm. It was a first iteration of this kind of thing and the second iteration was the garrison which on a whole is SOOOO much better I could not even make myself do the farm stuff at all in pandaria but I don't mind the garrison at all. Honestly I think it may be about time for them to break down and add player housing given that garrisons are already effectively that.
Gorehack
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,534
- 40
Not for long you say? This is the only BrM thing on the 6.1 PTR notes:
Brewmaster
Elusive Brew is now highlighted when the Monk has 15 stacks of it.
I am currently leveling my monk as BrM and she's 95...at 95 I get guards that are bigger than the shield absorb on my 682 warrior (which they're buffing, thank fuck). The timer on the guard runs out before the shield does.
It. Is. Ba-nan-as.
6.1 PTR Patch Notes - February 13 - MMO-Champion BlueTracker
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
- 6,599
- 793
They are sorta doing that with the world boss garrison raid thingy. But I know what you meant.
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,704
- 5,530
Surely if you've played WoW for any length of time you'd know that the biggest nerfs often come as mostly-untested and half-assed hotfixes that they spring on you on a Friday evening.
And like I've said before, tank balance comes down to dps, not survivability, now anyway. Everyone can tank everything, that's not even an issue. Beating enrage timers and dps gear checks very much is.
Gorehack
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,534
- 40
Eh, I'd agree with that if this were still MoP. But given that tank dps isn't stupid high (unless pre-nerf highmaul blood dk and prot pal) I would say it's very much about survivability now, and it should be. Tanks shouldn't go back to being meat shields, but we shouldn't be about squeaking out the most dps either. If you're sacrificing mitigation to do more dps you're doing it wrong. If your raid requires the tanks to do X amount of damage, you're not geared enough or your dps need to learn how to crank it up. Enrage timers so far in WoD have been almost totally useless, other than Butcher.
You're right about the nerfs though. But I think given that a lot of the top tier guilds are using at least one monk we'd have heard SOMETHING about it by now. That or how they're stacking hunters because they have 0 downsides.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,643
- 16,699
I was basing my statement off history, like vorph said. Whether it happens is yet to be seen. We need real data on how tanks are faring in brf.
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,704
- 5,530
All I'm saying with the tank stuff is that guilds aren't failing to kill shit because their tanks are getting gibbed. Monks have an advantage on some fights because of Guard, DKs have an advantage on others because of Rune Tap and because they can still do some pretty crazy DPS in big AE fights and vs. single targets that allow the [ab]use of BoS. I tend to think that something will probably happen to monks shortly after 6.1 if it doesn't get shoved into the actual patch at the last minute, simply because too many guilds are using 1-2 monks on every fight now. The sad thing is that a perception of an imbalance is more likely to move Blizzard to act than any amount of 'real data' thrown in their faces.
Hunters' downside is that they don't do anywhere near as much dps as a whole bunch of other classes. They are just good at maintaining average dps no matter how annoying the mechanics get. Their cleave damage is middle of the pack at best, except in very special cases, and they suck at bursting down important adds unless they spec MM instead of SV, which few do now as the gap between SV and the other specs just keeps getting wider with all the multistrike in BRF.
I haven't seen much I'd call 'hunter stacking' in the mythic race either. They're bringing 1-2 hunters to pretty much every fight, with Kromog being the only real outlier. Method brought 4 hunters to Kromog, but they also brought 6 druids (3 balance), a couple fire mages and demo locks. It's not about stacking hunters, it's about getting all the melee to log off and switch to their best ranged mass-AE-spec alts.
Hunters' downside is that they don't do anywhere near as much dps as a whole bunch of other classes. They are just good at maintaining average dps no matter how annoying the mechanics get. Their cleave damage is middle of the pack at best, except in very special cases, and they suck at bursting down important adds unless they spec MM instead of SV, which few do now as the gap between SV and the other specs just keeps getting wider with all the multistrike in BRF.
I haven't seen much I'd call 'hunter stacking' in the mythic race either. They're bringing 1-2 hunters to pretty much every fight, with Kromog being the only real outlier. Method brought 4 hunters to Kromog, but they also brought 6 druids (3 balance), a couple fire mages and demo locks. It's not about stacking hunters, it's about getting all the melee to log off and switch to their best ranged mass-AE-spec alts.
- 3,389
- 141
Right. I understand this specifically. The conversation spawned from my very unique situation where this guild asked for me to play an ele shaman over a hunter because they already had two. In that instance I would just take a 3rd hunter given the way loot works today.
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
- 38,643
- 16,699
On another note I watched the mythic iron maiden kill video. Holy fuck.
If anyone watched it, there were notes in the left side saying which members were going where, etc. Is this an add-on or just something overlayed on the video ?
If anyone watched it, there were notes in the left side saying which members were going where, etc. Is this an add-on or just something overlayed on the video ?
They need guild garrisons. There's plenty of ideas to play with there, it would be a hub for your guild, a big garden that needs to be tended; a big mine, everybody producing for raiding or mats.
You could have real raid invasions onto your garrison, and you have to set it up correctly, so you could say at the start of the week (tuesday) that you guys want to raid in 24/48/etc hours and it would let you 'prep' your garrison for the invasion. So if a Winter Wyvern/Dragon will come to attack your garrison you can stock up or produce fire balls/defenses, etc.
I think the concept of garrison can really integrate better with raids; I would love some kind of advantage for doing actual preparations vs my invading enemy
You could have real raid invasions onto your garrison, and you have to set it up correctly, so you could say at the start of the week (tuesday) that you guys want to raid in 24/48/etc hours and it would let you 'prep' your garrison for the invasion. So if a Winter Wyvern/Dragon will come to attack your garrison you can stock up or produce fire balls/defenses, etc.
I think the concept of garrison can really integrate better with raids; I would love some kind of advantage for doing actual preparations vs my invading enemy
EQ had guild halls shortly after WoW launched so I am not sure why we got solo garrisons out of this. Maybe as a test run?