World of Warcraft: Current Year

Daidraco

Daidraco

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Khane said:
You're comparing a good tank to the defacto worst tank in the expansion by a mile. And saying druids need to be nerfed because they don't blow like brewmasters.

Get off my lawn dammit!
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I picked apart a small part of the Guardian Druid and that was the Iron Fur usage. I just dont think it should be a buff that has the ability to be up 100% of the time. Under the idealogy that they presented us when they changed the tanks, you should have to be careful with when you use your cool downs. Druid you can just just blow your load whenever you want to. But its whatever, not like any developer is going to do anything about either anytime soon.

-Edit- ...and really, I just like my brewmaster so much more and just wish it was even remotely as powerful as the Druid Ive made.
 
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Khane

Khane

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Also, making ironfur a passive would be a travesty. There is a lot of choice involved with that skill and when to use it.

Maul accounts for about 4% of my overall damage on fights I don't need to worry too much about ironfur and about 1% on fights I do. So that's 3% dps loss if you just spam it (when you really don't even need to).

But you can also pool rage to stack it to 3 or 4 (not much difference in mitigation at that point since at 4 you're probably hitting armor cap) for really big damage spikes or tank swaps.

It's not just a mindless *always hit this* skill, and if it's used that way you're not going to perform as well as you could. Guardian Druids are fun and interesting to play and they are powerful so it's very rewarding. But they aren't the end all be all tank a lot of people here would have you think. Have you ever watched a stream or video of say... a high end paladin tank in Karazhan or an M+? It's all relative.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

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velk said:
No, not really. Warcraft logs actually lets you do parse breakdowns by equipped legendary, which gives you somewhat of a broader view of how good they are. In some cases the good ones are as much as 10% better than the awful ones, but overall they are a lot closer than you'd think.

Warcraft Logs - Combat Analysis for Warcraft
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This is really neat and I didnt know you could do that with Warcraft Logs. How does it account for people running two legendaries at once? Or other oddities? I just dont think this is a good tool to value the dps given by a legendary, long story short. The Helm has no DPS value other than the stats for DPS, yet the people that have that legendary are reflecting higher dps than those with the bracers which do have a dps benefit? Do you see where Im going with this?
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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Or you know rather than nerf ing a class how about just buff the others? Warrior is in a decent slot. Definitely could use some work but the other tanks are seriously in the shitter
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Deathwing said:
I haven't played a monk, so in the spirit of your post, I won't comment on that. But to clarify, ironfur and ursol aren't cooldowns but active mitigation. There's nothing inherent to these types of abilities that says you shouldn't have them up all the time. Bears might be designed with the assumption of 1-2 ironfur and warriors a certain amount of shields and others classes not so much.
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I've only been tanking with Guardian a little. But seriously my BIGGEST complaint between Brew and Guardian is that Brew can get "stuck in the corner." Or you just had a really tough pull or something.

Like, oh you pressed the wrong key and hit Ironskin when you really wanted to hit Purify and you have no charges left and Black Ox Brew is down (recharges all brews on 90 second CD). You're at high stagger?

Right there, you're basically fucked. You're fucking dead unless the heals pulls a rabbit out of a hat and saves your ass until you can get a brew charge up. This is MUCH less likely to happen on Guardian with the variety of tools you have to prevent such a situation. Still love playing Brewmaster though. Did a +8 this morning, Teeming/Necrotic is AIDS. I LOVE Brew playstyle WAY more than Guadian overall.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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This goes back into the stagger mechanic. Unless you're using active mitigation, which shares charges with Purifying Brew, you are taking more damage than most other tanks. Stagger just delays the damage, you need to use purify to actually get rid of it.
 
Xequecal

Xequecal

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Khane said:
You're comparing a good tank to the defacto worst tank in the expansion by a mile. And saying druids need to be nerfed because they don't blow like brewmasters.

Get off my lawn dammit!
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I play Brewmaster and I can tell you DK is by far the worst tank. It's not even close. At least BrM has high EHP, doesn't get one shot, isn't vulnerable to healing debuffs, and has a really strong mastery. DK has no EHP, no mobility, a useless mastery, gets fucked by healing debuffs, and has the Paladin problem of their active mitigation not working if they're not in melee range of something. In addition to that, DK is burdened with the fact that both strength AND two secondary stats (crit/mastery) are almost completely worthless. It's just hilarious when you compare DKs and their 16% "almost-always up active mitigation" to Warriors and their 45% shield block.

The main thing Brewmaster needs is for Black Ox Brew, Healing Elixirs, and Black Ox Statue to be baseline. Guardian Druid needs Thick Hide removed, it has no reason to exist. DK needs....lots of buffs, I don't even know where to start with this, DKs are such shit. The tanks would be pretty balanced as far as mythic raiding goes if they did this.
 
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xzi

xzi

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I heal and I can tell you brewmaster is by far the worst tank to heal.
I also run dungeons occasionally with a BM friend who has been playing BM since MOP launch, it's not the player. I've never had a good time healing BM this expansion, not a single time.

The only think BM has going for it is movement. It's really unfortunate and needs to be looked at a bit closer.
 
Xequecal

Xequecal

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xzi said:
I heal and I can tell you brewmaster is by far the worst tank to heal.
I also run dungeons occasionally with a BM friend who has been playing BM since MOP launch, it's not the player. I've never had a good time healing BM this expansion, not a single time.

The only think BM has going for it is movement. It's really unfortunate and needs to be looked at a bit closer.
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This has not been my experience at all and I only get praise from healers. You have to do quite a few counter intuitive things to make BrM good so my guess is it is the player. Is he running High Tolerance? If he is, he's doing it wrong and it's certainly him.
 
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Xequecal said:
This has not been my experience at all and I only get praise from healers. You have to do quite a few counter intuitive things to make BrM good so my guess is it is the player. Is he running High Tolerance? If he is, he's doing it wrong and it's certainly him.
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He is a Paladin and from my experience so far HOTS are just must more effective/efficient heals for us than anything else. I run Blackout Combo of course.
 
D

DavivMcD

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Brikker said:
Some stuff from the Blizzcon Q&A:

*They are mainly using Artifact Knowledge as a mechanic to help level up your off-spec weapons. - This one doesn't make sense to me with how much AP costs once you get into the upper 20-point range. AK seems like it is clearly intended for all of your artifact weapons otherwise you would barely have any points if you grinded that shit all the time.
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The only reason AP costs grow exponentially is because they designed it around artifact knowledge. If they didn't put AK in, they would have made it a much gentler slope.
 
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kitsune

kitsune

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Druid for sure needs to be nerfed. If all other classes can't have 100% active mitigation up, why should druid get to auto ignore those boss mechanics (like the demon hunter in blackrook hold) just like brewmasters got to in MoP?

This is coming from someone who has been forced to play druid this expansion and can't wait for it to be over
 
kitsune

kitsune

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oh yeah, got a new raid mission that I finished late last evening, was for ilgynoth so went into LFR and finished it. Ended up getting a pair of 895 bracers with a socket. Doesn't get much sweeter than that and now I'm at 884 with one legendary. ooooh baby
 
Fyff

Fyff

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Demon Hunters can have their active mitigation up 100% of the time. I don't exactly see people clawing over each other to get Demon Hunter tanks...
 
V

velk

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Daidraco said:
This is really neat and I didnt know you could do that with Warcraft Logs. How does it account for people running two legendaries at once? Or other oddities? I just dont think this is a good tool to value the dps given by a legendary, long story short. The Helm has no DPS value other than the stats for DPS, yet the people that have that legendary are reflecting higher dps than those with the bracers which do have a dps benefit? Do you see where Im going with this?
Click to expand...

It doesn't account for anything, it's just filtering all the normal parses for people who have that legendary equipped.

You can infer whatever conclusion you wish from the results. For that particular comparison, I'd suggest that void bolt is used too often for the wrists to gain any significant number of stacks in top end spriest parses, so that the helm's far better stats win out. You can always drill down on the results and investigate if you want ;p
 
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