12 year olds stab friend to prove Slender Man is real

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Mist

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Successfultemporaryinsanity defenses are incredibly rare. Lorena Bobbitt was one of the few successful ones in the last half century.

Actual insanity defenses are considerably less rare, but still not likely to be successful.
 
Palum

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Insanity defenses are generally worthless because they require the defense to admit guilt.
 
Chanur

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Melvin_sl said:
A) I think the "evidence" that supports calling what these kids did as "cold calculated" is pretty flimsy, at best. Let me re-iterate: How long has it been since you've spent any time at all with children? Have you ever?

B) I don't think that children committing crimes this violent is common enough that there's good statistics readily available to laymen like us. I'd love to be corrected if I'm wrong though. So instead, I'm going to have to lean pretty heavily on common sense, which points entirely in the direction that 12 year old children, almost without fail, turn out to be considerably more mature and rational once they've stopped being children.

So now that rehabilitation is a concern of yours, do you support the argument that charging them as adults will offer them a better chance at being rehabilitated than treating them like the children that they are?
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I don't think they will be rehabilitated period. I am will to be proven otherwise if the statistics show it but the girl was not even contrite once caught.
 
Namon

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If they are locked up only until they are 30, then basically we are going to release a mentally disturbed person who has been hardened by a pretty cruel life into the world with nothing but the jumpsuit on their back. I would bet that it will be almost a 100% guaranteed recipe for disaster.

When this first broke, I stated they should be tried as adults, but now that the dust has settled a little, that is pretty moot for me personally. All I see now, is these seem to be kids with the same level of mental brokenness that produced Sandy Brook, the batman shootings, and Columbine. I personally want them removed from society permanently, not out of some sense of vengeance or "justice." But because I truly think these are broken kids who will grow into broken adults. These kids are beyond even drowning kittens or puppies, and frankly I'm not willing to chance it at the cost of another person or many people's live(s).

Regardless of how all of this goes down for the two girls, I truly hope their parents are scrutinized in all of this as well. Something just was not right at the home front if it produced cold blooded (attempted) murderers that were 12.
 
Haast

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Fyro_sl said:
Fucking seriously. You guys are speaking in absolutes. How the fuck do we know if they are remorseful? Not a rhetorical question, a real question. The best I can guess is your answer might be, "because the media says so." I'll not go into why that's grade-A retarded especially after what, two days, and you guys are calling for the axe?
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The article has quotes from the girl's police interview on the subject of remorse.

Weier on what it means to kill someone: "I believe it's ending a life and I regret it. The bad part of me wanted her to die, the good part of me wanted her to live."
Geyser: "It was weird that I didn't feel remorse." She also said what she did was "probably wrong." She claims to believe if they didn't kill this girl, then a mythical creature would kill her family.

One of them seems conflicted, the other seems mentally disturbed.
 
Gavinmad

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It's weird, almost like they don't possess the full mental faculties of an adult or something.
 
Soygen

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Gaige would like to try both of these girls as adults.
 
Chanur

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How are they going to rehab someone that has no guilt or remorse about trying to murder their friend? A friend that had done absolutely nothing to them?

Would you trust your children around them in 10 years? If not why are you willing to risk other people's kids?
 
chaos

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Just because you don't understand how to do something doesn't mean it can't be done.
 
spronk

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if a 12 year old is tried and convicted as an adult, until they are 18 they are still sent to juvie prison, right? At 18 do they transfer to adult prison? If the sentence is handed down with no chance of parole for say 40 years, would they still serve until 12+40 or when they hit 18 do the parole rules reset?
 
Chanur

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Chaos no shit dumb ass. That's why I asked for examples showing this could be done and so far there has been fuck all for proof .

As far as I know they go to juvenile detention first until 18 or 21 what ever it is. They do not put 12 year olds in gen pop.
 
chaos

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Chanur_sl said:
Chaos no shit dumb ass. That's why I asked for examples showing this could be done and so far there has been fuck all for proof .

As far as I know they go to juvenile detention first until 18 or 21 what ever it is. They do not put 12 year olds in gen pop.
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As if the posters here are experts on mental health and juvenile rehabilitation?

You formatted your "questions" as more or less rhetorical. If they were intended to be serious questions, I really don't know and I doubt anyone here does. I also don't really feel that has any bearing on the way they charged them. That was a political decision, not a calculated mental health decision.
 
Chanur

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I absolutely feel it has a bearing on how they are charged. The juvenile process is to turn troubled kids into productive adults. Kids that are murdering sociopath's cannot be rehabilitated so why would we give them the juvenile process?
 
mkopec

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I know my 12 yr old knows right from wrong. But at the same time he is not fully mature to grasp the full scope of everything thats going on around him. Kids do stupid shit all the time its part of the learning process. Sometimes they do shit at the moment without any though on how this will affect them or others around them long term. Now im not saying that there are limits to the stupid shit, like stabbing someone for fun, but they are still kids and especially at that age flooded with new chemicals coursing through their bodies making them crazy as well.

Can these kids be rehabilitated? who the fuck knows? I mean, there is a reason we have these child courts and shit. But i know for sure that they will be different people at 20 than what they are at 12.
 
Phazael

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Namon_sl said:
If they are locked up only until they are 30, then basically we are going to release a mentally disturbed person who has been hardened by a pretty cruel life into the world with nothing but the jumpsuit on their back. I would bet that it will be almost a 100% guaranteed recipe for disaster.

When this first broke, I stated they should be tried as adults, but now that the dust has settled a little, that is pretty moot for me personally. All I see now, is these seem to be kids with the same level of mental brokenness that produced Sandy Brook, the batman shootings, and Columbine. I personally want them removed from society permanently, not out of some sense of vengeance or "justice." But because I truly think these are broken kids who will grow into broken adults. These kids are beyond even drowning kittens or puppies, and frankly I'm not willing to chance it at the cost of another person or many people's live(s).

Regardless of how all of this goes down for the two girls, I truly hope their parents are scrutinized in all of this as well. Something just was not right at the home front if it produced cold blooded (attempted) murderers that were 12.
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Pretty much this. I said it already, but these twats are a genetic dead end. They need to be removed from society permanently for no other reason than to prevent further damage to society as a whole.
 
chaos

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Chanur_sl said:
I absolutely feel it has a bearing on how they are charged. The juvenile process is to turn troubled kids into productive adults. Kids that are murdering sociopath's cannot be rehabilitated so why would we give them the juvenile process?
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You just made a whole lot of assumptions there about what can and can't be done and what these kids are. And I highly doubt that the DA did a full vetting on the issue before making the decision. DAs are usually political positions and charging in this case, as in just about every other case, was likely a political decision.
 
BrutulTM

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So what you guys are saying is that a bunch of people on the internet are having an argument about something none of them know anything about? Mind blown.
 
Chanur

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I'm the only one in this thread that is uncertain. I said I would be okay with them being charged as juveniles if they can be helped. You guys are the certain ones going rabble rabble teh children!
 
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