2013 NFL Season

Elurin_sl said:

I'm so tired of this shit. The whole RG3, Wilson, and Kaepernick being this next generation of great QB's. Based on what, exactly?

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Based on the eyeball test. Extremely subjective, yes, but there simply isn't enough data to make informative declarations yet so we can't go on any more than our personal opinions, and those of the so-called experts. You want to argue that we shouldn't be anointing them yet because they haven't proven anything I can't argue against that point at all. You couldn't make the argument that Tom Brady was going to be one of the all time greats based on his first season either. Hell, Belichick still tried to go back to Bledsoe because of that fact.

I got nothing to go off of other than potential and I have seen Kaep's potential and don't think he is living up to it the last 4 games. You point out Freeman but I think he also has that potential but lacks the work ethic and drive to capitalize on it.

I do agree that Luck doesn't get the publicity because he doesn't run the read option, but every time I hear an expert having one of those "which QB would you take to start a franchise with" conversations unless they are homers they all pick Luck, so it isn't like he isn't getting the respect he deserves. I haven't watched him much but was extremely impressed with the way he played against Seattle this weekend. Looks like the real-deal to me.

So called experts are some of the dumbest people out there. Kaep and Wilson are average at best qbs playing on teams with ridiculous defenses.

As long as people equate winning and losing as what to gauge a qb by, you'll have idiots chanting for Tebow and his 1/3 passing for 9 yards 7-3 victories

Elurin_sl said:

I'm fucking tired of all three of these asshats. Luck is the only one of that group that deserves the praise they're all getting. And oddly enough, he's the one that gets talked about the least.

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To a great extent, alot of those guys are products of the Read Option offense. That offense showcased their skills, but every defensive coordinator went to school on it in the off season. Many teams put that offense in, not to run in games, but to give their defense more time to look at it in camp.

Luck is not that type of QB, he is the classic model. He reads Ds and makes great throws. That never goes out of style. Additionally with Kaepernick, this year the Niners are alot more hesitant to let him run around without Alex Smith as a backup.

BTW, when Brady gets Gronk back, look for the Pats to put up alot more points and have the 2nd best offense in the league by the end of the season. Those young receivers will start making the right reads and making people pay, Amendola will find his groove and Edelman will be the guy there is no answer for.

Ambiturner_sl said:

So called experts are some of the dumbest people out there. Kaep and Wilson are average at best qbs playing on teams with ridiculous defenses.

As long as people equate winning and losing as what to gauge a qb by, you'll have idiots chanting for Tebow and his 1/3 passing for 9 yards 7-3 victories

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The majority of the 'so-called experts' I heard giving commentary on Tebow were all condemning his ability to play the QB position. The people calling for Tebow either loved him because he loved Jesus, bought into the whole "he just wins" mantra or just wanted to see the train-wreck ensue.

Lleauaric_sl said:

BTW, when Brady gets Gronk back, look for the Pats to put up alot more points and have the 2nd best offense in the league by the end of the season. Those young receivers will start making the right reads and making people pay, Amendola will find his groove and Edelman will be the guy there is no answer for.

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I agree with all of this, except that Amendola will break his pinkie toe getting into a bubble bath.

opiate82_sl said:

The majority of the 'so-called experts' I heard giving commentary on Tebow were all condemning his ability to play the QB position. The people calling for Tebow either loved him because he loved Jesus, bought into the whole "he just wins" mantra or just wanted to see the train-wreck ensue.

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Tebow's an extreme version, but still the same thing. Wilson and Kaep are much better than Tebow, but give them the Jags or Cowboys D and nobody would think they're elite

SimSimSalabim_sl said:

How does it work out that Freeman gets a contract from the Vikingsandgets paid his remaining contract by the Bucs? I was under the impression that if you release a player mid season and he gets picked up by another team that the new team picks up the remaining contract (effectively letting the releasing team off the hook). Am I completely wrong in my understanding, or was this a special case?

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You are kinda wrong and kinda right. NFL players who have played in the League for 4 or more years are vested veterans. If they are on a roster for the week 1 game of a NFL season, then their contract for the whole year becomes fully guaranteed. That is why Freeman gets his full salary this year if though the Bucs cut him. Like said before, apparently there was no off setting language in his contract about his salary after being cut.

Now for how you are partly right. For players with less than 4 years playing, they go on the waiver wire after they are cut for 24 hours. At this time, any team who picks them up will pick up will also get them at their previous contract. 24 hours after the cut, the players become a free agent and can sign with whoever they want for whatever they can get. Vested veterans become free agents immediately when they are cut. All of this is true until the trade deadline though. After the trade deadline, all players are subjected to the waiver process.

Elurin_sl said:

I think this is the biggest difference. The other QB's all just rely on physical talent, but they're not good QB's. It was incredibly apparent yesterday when I watched the Broncos game followed immediately by Niners. I know that isn't an entirely fair comparison, but you see Manning commanding his offense. Making adjustments at the line, and actually going through progressions. The other 3 basically walk up to the line with a play, and that's that. They usually lock onto one guy, and possibly work to their 2nd read. But that's about as far as it goes.

If any of them actually make the leap to making adjustments based on defensive reads and going through progressions, they might be around for a while. If not, I don't imagine any of them will be around in any competitive manner in 5 years.

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So comparing a couple of guys with 20-ish starts to the best quarterback to ever play seems like a fair barometer (edit: didn't read your follow up sentence saying it's not a fair comparison)? They all need more experience and play time, and Wilson/Kaepernick/RG3 are all dealing with some pretty major problems on offense. RG3's knee is still a bit fucked, Wilson's line is getting him murdered, and Kaepernick is missing his top 3 receivers from last year + Davis has been injured for 3 weeks. None of them are complete quarterbacks at the moment obviously, but we won't really know how they shake out for another couple years like you said. All 3 may end up being just a flash in the pan, or they could be great.

Kaepernick's biggest issue right now seems to be his confidence. He's been locking onto receivers too much and not progressing through his targets. He used to sling it, but not he's just so damn hesitant to throw the ball unless the receiver has a couple steps.

Disp_sl said:

So comparing a couple of guys with 20-ish starts to the best quarterback to ever play seems like a fair barometer? They all need more experience and play time, and Wilson/Kaepernick/RG3 are all dealing with some pretty major problems on offense. RG3's knee is still a bit fucked, Wilson's line is getting him murdered, and Kaepernick is missing his top 3 receivers from last year + Davis has been injured for 3 weeks. None of them are complete quarterbacks at the moment obviously, but we won't really know how they shake out for another couple years like you said. All 3 may end up being just a flash in the pan, or they could be great.

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So much this. And I have watched Wilson/Kaep enough to know you are wrong about the "walk to the line with 1 play" line. I see them audible a lot. Is it the same amount as Peyton/Brady or are they the right ones all the time? No they aren't, but then that isn't a fair comparison as Disp said.

That's one of the problems with mobile quarterbacks. When you're bigger and faster than most defenses, you don't have to do that. Starting in the NFL is like going from elementary school math to calculus. It also all goes out the window when you're facing a lot of pressure from defenses and you go back to instinct.

I really can't think of any qbs who were big runners that were more than an average passer

Elurin_sl said:

I think this is the biggest difference. The other QB's all just rely on physical talent, but they're not good QB's. It was incredibly apparent yesterday when I watched the Broncos game followed immediately by Niners. I know that isn't an entirely fair comparison, but you see Manning commanding his offense. Making adjustments at the line, and actually going through progressions. The other 3 basically walk up to the line with a play, and that's that. They usually lock onto one guy, and possibly work to their 2nd read. But that's about as far as it goes.

If any of them actually make the leap to making adjustments based on defensive reads and going through progressions, they might be around for a while. If not, I don't imagine any of them will be around in any competitive manner in 5 years.

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Let us not forget that Manning was throwing more INT's than TD's and looked very much the rookie (albeit a rookie with the potential for greatness) over his first 16 games as a pro. Of course you are going to notice a difference between a seasoned vet vs first and second year guys. That will come for the young guys with work and experience. Both Wilson and Kaep have reported outstanding work ethics (first guy to practice, last to leave, gym and film-room rats, etc). I'm sure Luck is the same way, don't know about RG3 and there were rumors that Freeman was far from that guy.

Ambiturner_sl said:

I really can't think of any qbs who were big runners that were more than an average passer

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Steve Young?

Aaron Rodgers??

Andrew Luck?

BrutulTM_sl said:

What's really weird about this season is that none of them are really using the option or the pistol much at all and that was what made them all famous last season. What happened to it? Did defenses figure it out so it's just not effective? Did RG3's knee injury scare everybody into discontinuing it? Last season everyone was talking about it like it's an inherent mismatch and there's no way it's going away and now it kind of seems like the wildcat version 2.0.

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I think defense are playing it better then they were last year, but I kept trying to stress this last year, at least when it came to the 'Hawks and Niners, it only ever was a wrinkle in their offenses. Those offenses wasn't built around the read-option. Sure when it was wide open such as San Fran vs Green Bay or Seattle vs Chicago the QB's were able to run wild. But the ESPN hype machine made it seem like it was the entire game-plan for both of those teams and that was far from the truth. For RG3 it felt like the read-option was more of a part of the game-plan and RG3's knee changed that quick.

opiate82_sl said:

I think defense are playing it better then they were last year, but I kept trying to stress this last year, at least when it came to the 'Hawks and Niners, it only ever was a wrinkle in their offenses. Those offenses wasn't built around the read-option. Sure when it was wide open such as San Fran vs Green Bay or Seattle vs Chicago the QB's were able to run wild. But the ESPN hype machine made it seem like it was the entire game-plan for both of those teams and that was far from the truth. For RG3 it felt like the read-option was more of a part of the game-plan and RG3's knee changed that quick.

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Agreed. Russ had a couple of games where he went wild with his feet last year and has had at least 1 this season. But before he crosses that line he is always looking to throw first. And even in the read option formations we still run, its almost always a hand-off to Marshawn or Turbin.