A Song of Ice and Fire (Released Spoilers)

BrutulTM

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I had thought that when he started writing this series of books, this was going to be his magnum opus. The one thing he's going to be remembered for, his greatest work, and then he just gave up?

You never know what motivates people. I'm just speculating of course, but you see it in sports all the time. Some dudes are just driven to be the best no matter what. Other guys get that big contract and once they're financially secure, they lose the hunger and go downhill fast.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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You never know what motivates people. I'm just speculating of course, but you see it in sports all the time. Some dudes are just driven to be the best no matter what. Other guys get that big contract and once they're financially secure, they lose the hunger and go downhill fast.
Wasn't trying to necessarily disagree with you, I'm just pointing out the fact that somewhere along the way either the money or just maybe his lack of interest killed the story. I think it's a combination of both, just not really sure which took hold first. I still believe he painted himself into a corner too many plot threads, and maybe just couldn't figure out how to work them all out.

It's a shame because like I had posted before, I'd have been more than happy to read the rest of the novels, as with millions of other people, and he could have maybe solidified himself in the upper echelons of great fantasy writers. Not to say that he isn't good but he'll never be legendary like Tolkien or Jordan.
 
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zzeris

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Wasn't trying to necessarily disagree with you, I'm just pointing out the fact that somewhere along the way either the money or just maybe his lack of interest killed the story. I think it's a combination of both, just not really sure which took hold first. I still believe he painted himself into a corner too many plot threads, and maybe just couldn't figure out how to work them all out.

It's a shame because like I had posted before, I'd have been more than happy to read the rest of the novels, as with millions of other people, and he could have maybe solidified himself in the upper echelons of great fantasy writers. Not to say that he isn't good but he'll never be legendary like Tolkien or Jordan.

His biggest problem, and it has been mentioned here before, is that he doesn't know how to finish and doesn't have an editor controlling his work. He's just like Jordan was. GRRM had a fantastic story he was set to deliver in 3 books, and it would have been amazing. He couldn't stop his unnecessary and unstopped bloat. He could have ended just a section of the story and left people wondering how the rest played out, but he couldn't. He could have stopped adding so many damn characters, but he can't help himself. The story grew too large, too bloated, and he's not nearly talented enough to finish it now.

He's burned out, and that's ok. The greatest fantasy author will always be Erikson anyway. No one respects Bob Jordan for his bloated mess either. They respect the first 5 books and are happy as hell that Sanderson finished that mess for Jordan. Erikson is about the only epic author that could finish his work properly and that might include Sanderson even though he's trying really hard. His books have gotten worse though.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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His biggest problem, and it has been mentioned here before, is that he doesn't know how to finish and doesn't have an editor controlling his work. He's just like Jordan was. GRRM had a fantastic story he was set to deliver in 3 books, and it would have been amazing. He couldn't stop his unnecessary and unstopped bloat. He could have ended just a section of the story and left people wondering how the rest played out, but he couldn't. He could have stopped adding so many damn characters, but he can't help himself. The story grew too large, too bloated, and he's not nearly talented enough to finish it now.

He's burned out, and that's ok. The greatest fantasy author will always be Erikson anyway. No one respects Bob Jordan for his bloated mess either. They respect the first 5 books and are happy as hell that Sanderson finished that mess for Jordan. Erikson is about the only epic author that could finish his work properly and that might include Sanderson even though he's trying really hard. His books have gotten worse though.
I don't know, Erickson, I've tried reading that stuff but it's so disjointed, he's not near as good of a writer as Jordan or Martin. Not saying that the story might not be great, but you get thrust into a world and he doesn't necessarily know how to shut down the systems, and let his audience know what the hell is actually going on.

How about the first book of the series I think based upon people on the forums talking about it, and it was a slog. Like I posted something about it and everybody said look the first book's not really good read the second. Yeah the second was better but even then he just throws all this shit at you, and you're supposed to try to make sense of it. Maybe he was cutting his teeth, from what I understand they get a hell of a lot better, but I've tried getting back into that series and I just can't do it.

I know they're extremely popular, but I read a ton of different fantasy series, and it just wasn't my cup of tea. Who knows maybe I'll give it another chance.

I think the last really good fantasy author that I've read is Abercrombie, and his first six books are excellent. First three are simple and extremely tight, and the three standalone books are wonderful. Unfortunately I read the first in the new trilogy, and he went woke somewhere along the way, and as much and as many times as I've read his novels, I honestly don't have any desire to finish it. I know I've posted in the Abercrombie thread, but from what I hear it's just not as good princess previous work, which is a real shame.

However at least he's pumping out novels.
 
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Gavinmad

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Even the TV rights had made me a multi-billionaire I wouldn't want my life's work forever punctuated by the atrocity that Weiss and Benioff unleashed on the world in my name. Even if you mostly kept the core plot points from how the show wrapped up I don't think it would be hard at all to write that story in a way that wasn't so painfully retarded and rushed.

Maybe without Bran telling Sansa how beautiful she looked the night Ramsay raped her, Jon Snow turning into a spineless emasculated chump, or Daenerys going from 0 to Mad Queen in 60 seconds.
 

Deathwing

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I don't know, Erickson, I've tried reading that stuff but it's so disjointed, he's not near as good of a writer as Jordan or Martin. Not saying that the story might not be great, but you get thrust into a world and he doesn't necessarily know how to shut down the systems, and let his audience know what the hell is actually going on.

How about the first book of the series I think based upon people on the forums talking about it, and it was a slog. Like I posted something about it and everybody said look the first book's not really good read the second. Yeah the second was better but even then he just throws all this shit at you, and you're supposed to try to make sense of it. Maybe he was cutting his teeth, from what I understand they get a hell of a lot better, but I've tried getting back into that series and I just can't do it.

I know they're extremely popular, but I read a ton of different fantasy series, and it just wasn't my cup of tea. Who knows maybe I'll give it another chance.

I think the last really good fantasy author that I've read is Abercrombie, and his first six books are excellent. First three are simple and extremely tight, and the three standalone books are wonderful. Unfortunately I read the first in the new trilogy, and he went woke somewhere along the way, and as much and as many times as I've read his novels, I honestly don't have any desire to finish it. I know I've posted in the Abercrombie thread, but from what I hear it's just not as good princess previous work, which is a real shame.

However at least he's pumping out novels.
If the Chain of Dogs didn't impress you, I don't think anything Erikson has will. 2nd and 3rd books have some very memorable arcs.

I think your mistake was trying to make sense of it. The characters talk to each other in-universe and will frequently make references that aren't explained until books later(or never). Confusing? Sure, but it's essentially a form of "show, don't tell". The Old Guard is an example of this. You don't need to know who the Old Guard was or what happened to them in order to enjoy the stories being told. But it makes sense that current day Malazan military would talk about them as they're legendary to the founding of the Empire.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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If the Chain of Dogs didn't impress you, I don't think anything Erikson has will. 2nd and 3rd books have some very memorable arcs.

I think your mistake was trying to make sense of it. The characters talk to each other in-universe and will frequently make references that aren't explained until books later(or never). Confusing? Sure, but it's essentially a form of "show, don't tell". The Old Guard is an example of this. You don't need to know who the Old Guard was or what happened to them in order to enjoy the stories being told. But it makes sense that current day Malazan military would talk about them as they're legendary to the founding of the Empire.
If a chain of dogs is the second book, it was a lot better than garden of the moon or whatever.

I don't remember the character who was leading some sort of army or something but then all the Ravens or birds flew at it when he was getting crucified or something, that was pretty crazy.

The problem was is there's this suddenly all this like weird shit happening with their magic realm and some people on a boat maybe they got flipped into the magic realm, I don't remember. It's literally been here since I read it.

It just seemed like it was all over the place and just shoving all these crazy ideas at you without any sort of explanation, where a decent author would set the stage so to speak, and the audience understands what the game is, or at least in the fantasy world, something like a magic system. Sanderson's really good about that and he's very inventive, even if those stories are just kind of, well typical fantasy stuff.

I believe somebody here told me look get through two and three, and it really picks up after that, but I got done with the second one and just wasn't feeling it. I think I bought the third book but never cracked a page, just started reading something else.

I don't know it's just something about his writing, and maybe he gets better over the years, and that seems to happen when some of these guys that do these long series of books. I just know the first one was just goofy, I was told the second one's a lot better, and it was but compared to other stuff I've read, no dice.

Hey if anybody enjoys it, good for them, have a blast. Maybe one day I'll give it another shot. I just felt like it was a weird dungeons and dragons campaign or something. I remember there was some crazy elf man or somebody in the first book who had some crazy sword, and he was a ultimate badass, and suddenly it became like dragon Ball Z.

I just would have been nice to have that first novel set up everything to where the audience understands exactly what does what and then have your characters play out whatever role they're supposed to play. I just felt like you were suddenly thrust into this big epic deal and you didn't know who the hell anybody was, I didn't know the rules of the world, so something happens doesn't make any goddamn sense.
 

Deathwing

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If a chain of dogs is the second book, it was a lot better than garden of the moon or whatever.

I don't remember the character who was leading some sort of army or something but then all the Ravens or birds flew at it when he was getting crucified or something, that was pretty crazy.

The problem was is there's this suddenly all this like weird shit happening with their magic realm and some people on a boat maybe they got flipped into the magic realm, I don't remember. It's literally been here since I read it.

It just seemed like it was all over the place and just shoving all these crazy ideas at you without any sort of explanation, where a decent author would set the stage so to speak, and the audience understands what the game is, or at least in the fantasy world, something like a magic system. Sanderson's really good about that and he's very inventive, even if those stories are just kind of, well typical fantasy stuff.

I believe somebody here told me look get through two and three, and it really picks up after that, but I got done with the second one and just wasn't feeling it. I think I bought the third book but never cracked a page, just started reading something else.

I don't know it's just something about his writing, and maybe he gets better over the years, and that seems to happen when some of these guys that do these long series of books. I just know the first one was just goofy, I was told the second one's a lot better, and it was but compared to other stuff I've read, no dice.

Hey if anybody enjoys it, good for them, have a blast. Maybe one day I'll give it another shot. I just felt like it was a weird dungeons and dragons campaign or something. I remember there was some crazy elf man or somebody in the first book who had some crazy sword, and he was a ultimate badass, and suddenly it became like dragon Ball Z.

I just would have been nice to have that first novel set up everything to where the audience understands exactly what does what and then have your characters play out whatever role they're supposed to play. I just felt like you were suddenly thrust into this big epic deal and you didn't know who the hell anybody was, I didn't know the rules of the world, so something happens doesn't make any goddamn sense.
The Chain of Dogs is the arc in which Coltaine leads Malazan citizens from some Seven Cities city(I honestly forgot) to Aren. Yes, the second book, Deadhouse Gates.

I would say Erikson is allergic to exposition, perhaps the opposite of Tolkein. Only explaining things that need explaining, or maybe not explaining a few things that should have been. It's one of the things I really like about the Malazan series. That and the characterization of the Malazan marine squad.

You don't need to understand how magic works in Malazan. Nor do you need to understand who is more powerful. Just that crazy shit can and will happen, and that there are lots of powerful people. The story being told doesn't depend on a intricate system like Sanderson's novels.

The antagonist of the series is a god from another world that was pulled to the Malazan world because some mages got pissed at how oppressive Kallor was. They tried to kill Kallor by throwing a god at him. You don't need to understand how that happened.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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The Chain of Dogs is the arc in which Coltaine leads Malazan citizens from some Seven Cities city(I honestly forgot) to Aren. Yes, the second book, Deadhouse Gates.

I would say Erikson is allergic to exposition, perhaps the opposite of Tolkein. Only explaining things that need explaining, or maybe not explaining a few things that should have been. It's one of the things I really like about the Malazan series. That and the characterization of the Malazan marine squad.

You don't need to understand how magic works in Malazan. Nor do you need to understand who is more powerful. Just that crazy shit can and will happen, and that there are lots of powerful people. The story being told doesn't depend on a intricate system like Sanderson's novels.

The antagonist of the series is a god from another world that was pulled to the Malazan world because some mages got pissed at how oppressive Kallor was. They tried to kill Kallor by throwing a god at him. You don't need to understand how that happened.
I'm not saying it's a bad series, obviously a lot of people love it. I just couldn't get into it. Maybe I'll give it another shot at some point. I guess maybe I'm just used to a certain style of like you said exposition, and he doesn't exactly do a wonderful job with that. I can understand maybe you would start learning more as the series continued but everything just seemed to be just so disjointed and the first two books.

I know there is like a glossary in the back of each of them that explain stuff but I shouldn't have to memorize that shit to understand exactly what's going on.

The guys might have really amazing ideas and it's probably a great concept or story, I just don't think he's a very good writer. I mean I don't remember any of the characters because none of them really stuck out other than the weird elf guy with a crazy two handed sword and I don't know what the hell his name is.

Maybe that changes over the course of the multitude of books he's written, and I think it's better than awesome, I'll give it another go.
 

zzeris

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I don't know, Erickson, I've tried reading that stuff but it's so disjointed, he's not near as good of a writer as Jordan or Martin. Not saying that the story might not be great, but you get thrust into a world and he doesn't necessarily know how to shut down the systems, and let his audience know what the hell is actually going on.

How about the first book of the series I think based upon people on the forums talking about it, and it was a slog. Like I posted something about it and everybody said look the first book's not really good read the second. Yeah the second was better but even then he just throws all this shit at you, and you're supposed to try to make sense of it. Maybe he was cutting his teeth, from what I understand they get a hell of a lot better, but I've tried getting back into that series and I just can't do it.

I know they're extremely popular, but I read a ton of different fantasy series, and it just wasn't my cup of tea. Who knows maybe I'll give it another chance.

I think the last really good fantasy author that I've read is Abercrombie, and his first six books are excellent. First three are simple and extremely tight, and the three standalone books are wonderful. Unfortunately I read the first in the new trilogy, and he went woke somewhere along the way, and as much and as many times as I've read his novels, I honestly don't have any desire to finish it. I know I've posted in the Abercrombie thread, but from what I hear it's just not as good princess previous work, which is a real shame.

However at least he's pumping out novels.

He's a very different author and everyone enjoys different things. His world is alive because you don't exactly know what's going on and who will show up next. I also really enjoy that he throws our different types of stories instead of one generalized arc with a lot of side stories. It's similar but also very different than what everyone else does. You can literally enjoy one arc and not even like the other ones if that's your type of story or group of characters. It reminds me of Cook's Black Company novels where shit just happens sometimes.

The problem with both Martin and Jordan is that they set their own bar way too high in the early novels. The first 3 of GRRM and the first 5 of RJ were amazing. Then, they kept going. This happens to most authors honestly and who can blame them when creativity is so hard to continue? I really liked Abercrombie but his latest books aren't great. Decent. Sanderson's epic series is really turning into a slog that's not nearly as good as his shorter Mistborn stuff. That's getting a bit old too, honestly. I liked the first 3 of R Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series and hated the last 3. It's hard to keep it coming and I think these characters usually wear out their welcome before the author figures out how to end series. Just look at Jim Butcher milking the hell out of Harry all these years.
 
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Dr.Retarded

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He's a very different author and everyone enjoys different things. His world is alive because you don't exactly know what's going on and who will show up next. I also really enjoy that he throws our different types of stories instead of one generalized arc with a lot of side stories. It's similar but also very different than what everyone else does. You can literally enjoy one arc and not even like the other ones if that's your type of story or group of characters. It reminds me of Cook's Black Company novels where shit just happens sometimes.

The problem with both Martin and Jordan is that they set their own bar way too high in the early novels. The first 3 of GRRM and the first 5 of RJ were amazing. Then, they kept going. This happens to most authors honestly and who can blame them when creativity is so hard to continue? I really liked Abercrombie but his latest books aren't great. Decent. Sanderson's epic series is really turning into a slog that's not nearly as good as his shorter Mistborn stuff. That's getting a bit old too, honestly. I liked the first 3 of R Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing series and hated the last 3. It's hard to keep it coming and I think these characters usually wear out their welcome before the author figures out how to end series. Just look at Jim Butcher milking the hell out of Harry all these years.
I can see that.

I think that's probably why I shifted to Joe Abercrombie and the first law on trilogy being probably my favorite, and his subsequent standalone novels afterwards.

His first three books though are just amazing. Great characters but you start to learn about the world over the books, and I becomes a bit more different but, I guess I enjoyed some of the humor, but specifically just the characters. Everybody turns on a hell of a lot different than what you would expect.

Maybe it might be a little bit more lighthearted, but then suddenly it becomes pretty goddamn serious, and brutal. I need to maybe try to finish the last trilogy he did, but the first book in the new series was pretty bad, and it was a utter disappointment. And I'm talking with some of the other guys on the forum, that doesn't hold a candle to his original works.

To each their own. Maybe I'll give Malazan another shot one day, i just couldn't get into it.