Abortion

No need for a new dumping ground, we have a perfectly good one here.

until you witness an unfit parent firsthand and see a kid in a fucked up situation sure you arent forabortionbut fuck if my cousin isnt in the running for worst mother of 2012/13, the baby is better off dead and not ever fucking knowing.

in some situations it just works and should be fucking enforced, if you cant afford to have a baby why the fuck are you going to have a fucking baby at that point we should stop that shit.

Just imagine how wonderful of a place the world would be if we didnt have poverty ridden cumdumpsters breeding babies they cant fucking take care of, and we all end up taking care of.

I don't like abortions, but I see why they are necessary. The reasons for anabortioncan be many, but they pretty much get split into three groups.

Ones of convenience.

Ones of medical necessity.

And ones to undo forced pregnancy. (rape,incest ect.)

It's the abortions of convenience I dislike. The others are there to aide the mother get out of a situation she had no control over. But convenience abortions being used as birth control is a sloppy plan. I wouldn't impose any kind of restrictions on these abortions... mainly because everyone would simply get a doctor to say theirabortionwas medically necessary.

However, women who do get these kinds of convenience abortions should be made to pay for a class on proper birth control techniques EVERY time they get one.

Birth control should always be the preferred method. Abortions should be treated as a last line of defense. A woman getting anabortionneeds to realize she fucked up and didn't take proper precautions against the pregnancy she didn't want. Treating them like they are no big deal is a really distasteful way of handling them in my opinion.

Now that puts all of the cost on the woman, which isn't fair. Maybe in the future she can have the identity of her partner verified and he can be made to split the cost. At any rate, free birth control is a good thing. It lessens the whole need for abortions.

Well, really now. Which of those three categories do you suppose is the most common?

Until and unless a father is forced to do that shit Pancreas, the mother shouldn't have to. Not that I agree with it (I'm all for free birth control and snipping men) but to put everything on a woman really really bothers me. No woman ever got pregnant without a man doing his part, and yet we almost entirely ignore the man's role (from many sides really) in this debate.

"I used a condom, must be someone else's."

OneofOne_sl said:

Until and unless a father is forced to do that shit Pancreas, the mother shouldn't have to. Not that I agree with it (I'm all for free birth control and snipping men) but to put everything on a woman really really bothers me. No woman ever got pregnant without a man doing his part, and yet we almost entirely ignore the man's role (from many sides really) in this debate.

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Thing is men don't have an equal say in whether to keep the child or not. Women have fought for that choice to be theirs. Their body, their choice. I agree putting everything on the woman is not fair and said as much. However, if a man is to be held as accountable for a pregnancy as a woman is, then they should get as much say as the woman in whether or not to keep the child. Which is what I would like to see.

Precisely my point. I was trying to explain a bit more than simply saying "punishing a woman is stupid".

Life isn't fair.

Erm... no I was referring to when Pancreas said:

However, women who do get these kinds of convenience abortions should be made to pay for a class on proper birth control techniques EVERY time they get one.

Birth control should always be the preferred method. Abortions should be treated as a last line of defense. A woman getting anabortionneeds to realize she fucked up and didn't take proper precautions against the pregnancy she didn't want. Treating them like they are no big deal is a really distasteful way of handling them in my opinion.

Now that puts all of the cost on the woman, which isn't fair. Maybe in the future she can have the identity of her partner verified and he can be made to split the cost. At any rate, free birth control is a good thing. It lessens the whole need for abortions.

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That is CLEARLY a punishment for women, which as I said in my first post, I don't agree with. Not the least of which is because... wait for it... "we almost entirely ignore the man's role (from many sides really)". Yes I'm quite familiar with the fact daddy has zero say in theabortionissue. On the flip side, I also realize daddy would suffer zero consequences under his proposed idea, while he admits it, and then essentially saying "yeah sucky, maybe they can fix that in the future".

If my point was unclear, that's fine, but don't tell me "what I REALLY meant!"

No, everything is on women EXCEPT FOR the getting pregnant part. Yes, woman do have the power to keep or not, to make a man pay child support for the next 18 years or not, at her fingertips. No one is saying otherwise. What I'm hearing you (and Pan) say is that because they've cut men out of that decision loop, they can be punished for choosingabortion. Word it anyway you want, but that's what I'm getting. And I still don't think that's fair.

Until the day men have the legal right to remove a fetus from a mother who's willing to sign away her parental rights, and we have the technology to have said fetus raised fully outside the mother's body, the choice ofabortionwill ALWAYS be an asymmetrical issue. Woman will have more power than men, and they should, unless you are willing to make a woman a prisoner of her own body for 9 months, which I'm not.

No, it doesn't make me happy at all that woman alone can decide to keep or terminate a pregnancy. But it would make me even MORE unhappy to (for any reason) mandate a woman go to term against her will. Which evil do you prefer, the lesser or the greater?

Trollface_sl said:

I don't see any evil. I see obligation and responsibility of that individual to carry it to full term if her partner has a conflicting opinion. If we can force men to support his women's children foreighteen years, nine fucking month doesn't seem unreasonable. It's not like women go without support either. they receive maternity leave if they have a good job.

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No, they aren't the same at all. One is a money issue, and one is a health issue. Pregnancy can and does cause permanent health issues to women for the rest of their lives (including death). Small chance of that happening? Sure, relatively speaking, but there nonetheless.

But once you say:

She didn't protect herself enough. It's 100% her fault (unless rape).

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You lose me, and I have zero interest in discussing it further with you. That's just ignorance I can't accept or get past.

OneofOne_sl said:

No, it doesn't make me happy at all that woman alone can decide to keep or terminate a pregnancy. But it would make me even MORE unhappy to (for any reason) mandate a woman go to term against her will. Which evil do you prefer, the lesser or the greater?

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You just assume that is the greater evil. That is a pretty big assumption. I don't support the idea of that either, but if you're bringing morality into it then I do not think you are on firm ground with your argument.

Why should anyone be forced to go full term against their will? Just so the kid can go into foster care because the mother doesn't want it? Lets put more kids in that system...

Why are men even legislating women's bodies? Why arewomeneven going against their rights? Women who are pro-life are idiots.