The ONLY reason abortion is legal because we can chalk the whole thing up to a fetus isn't human because it can't survive on its own. Viability is totally a standard we could use and should use and do use. It may have been shouted from the rooftops that it was about "choice" but take 30 seconds and read the laws. It's about viability.
Abortion
- Thread starter Julian The Apostate
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
fucking pro-choice feminazis would say that abortions should be permitted in all trimesters because, otherwise, it would restrict women's right of choice. this is a mainstream view. I've asked our local feminist organization this very question and the answer was, "no, it's woman's choice. other stuff aren't relevant. fuck babies." canadian gov't avoids this ethical question because, well, pro-choice and pro-life will cry foul in every corner. they are fucking cancers.
fuck these faggots.
fuck these faggots.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
Technology is going to make viability a non-issue at some point. Are you saying that that alters when abortions are ethical?
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 47,939
- 82,655
It's going to be a fucked up world when/if we can extract a very young fetus from a pregnant woman and put it in a 'birthing tube'. Especially if newborn babies are a valuable thing.
I haven't given it much thought but yeah, I'd be much more hesitant to be okay with legal abortion if the alternative was a procedure like that.
Even if we're still at the stage of talking about life in terms of cell division (rather than the presence of a brain/mind)?
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 47,939
- 82,655
I don't really have a strong opinion about the hypothetical scenario, but for simplicity I'd say yeah, all the way down to a zygote.
Whether I actually would want a woman to be legally required to either bring the fetus to term/terminate naturally or have the fetus removed and put in an artificial womb would depend on the details and again I haven't given it much though. I guess I'm more excited by the idea of an artificial womb enabling families to have kids than whether it would change the abortion debate.
Well that's the scenario that matters if we're talking about when a person becomes a person and not just a collection of cells. What is the moral relevance of a zygote? I mean...a woman's body flushes out fertilized eggs all the time. If we had they technology to save them, would we have a moral obligation to put them in incubators until they turned into people? If not, what's the ethical distinction there?
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 47,939
- 82,655
That's a very good question. I don't have an answer nor a strong opinion on it. I do see the hypocrisy or at least inconsistency in saying that a zygote can't be intentionally terminated but we have no moral obligation to save it from the natural termination process. I'm also uneducated on what the root cause is of natural pregnancy terminations so I won't venture much opinion on it.
However I'm pretty ok with this inconsistency if only because it's based in a hypothetical scenario. I have very few strong or well thought out opinions about hypothetical scenarios.
However I'm pretty ok with this inconsistency if only because it's based in a hypothetical scenario. I have very few strong or well thought out opinions about hypothetical scenarios.
The reason I like hypotheticals is because they allow us to explore the parameters of the ethical space without being encumbered by the happenstance of the here and now. It's absolutely a totally fair response to say that you're not certain what is right or wrong there, but I don't think you should let yourself off the hook so easily on the grounds that it's just a hypothetical scenario.
Is that sufficient for personhood?
But you think itwouldbe immoral if they did get an abortion 3-4 days into their pregnancy. That is what is meant by "life begins at conception." That hypothetical is only stupid if you don't care about getting to the heart of the matter.
When personhood starts is absolutely the heart of the matter. That is the core of the moral argument against abortion.