I agree.
Entirely for jesus-reasons. Not rational. Don't care.
Abortion
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hodj
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They didn't used to be people.
They are people.
Define "jesus reasons". Seems pretty bigoted "If you want to remember your parents and others after they die by not reducing their bodies down to soylent green, its because of 'jesus reasons'" does not compute.
Its about respect, and disease prevention, largely.
They are people.
Define "jesus reasons". Seems pretty bigoted "If you want to remember your parents and others after they die by not reducing their bodies down to soylent green, its because of 'jesus reasons'" does not compute.
Its about respect, and disease prevention, largely.
No. They aren't people. You need a mind for that. They are human bodies. It's not the same thing. That's fucking asinine.
"jesus reasons" = theological reasons
Yeah cause there's not a million different traditions of body disposal (including burning). I'm sure if the guy who made up jesus also had a notion of soylent green, we'd be eating your parents while some pastor gave a very literal sermon about the eating of the divine flesh.
It's about respect shown in a manner that comes about as a result of irrational beliefs. The sanitary aspect of the modes of disposal represent a selection pressure on those irrational beliefs that leaves us with irrational beliefs that have some useful side effects, but that's not relevant at all.
"jesus reasons" = theological reasons
Yeah cause there's not a million different traditions of body disposal (including burning). I'm sure if the guy who made up jesus also had a notion of soylent green, we'd be eating your parents while some pastor gave a very literal sermon about the eating of the divine flesh.
It's about respect shown in a manner that comes about as a result of irrational beliefs. The sanitary aspect of the modes of disposal represent a selection pressure on those irrational beliefs that leaves us with irrational beliefs that have some useful side effects, but that's not relevant at all.
chaos
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The body isn't "fully formed" until adulthood. The brain is still undergoing dramatic changes until a child is age 7. But at 8 weeks or so a fetus has a nervous system. These things are not definitions of the system, they are hardware features. The zygoteisa human being, it just is. I don't understand why people have such a problem with this, as if admitting that it is human somehow means something. It doesn't change anything.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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Its so asinine that literally every other human being on planet Earth understands why it is so except you. Our entire legal system ascribes the dead an extremely large value, because of cultural reasons, not theological ones. If it was theological, it would be seen in only one or two religions, mostly related to one another, something like the Abrahamic religions are related to one another. Rather, it exists in virtually every human society, regardless of religion.
You can't pack a million people in a city without coming up with ways to respect all the dead people you're going to be dealing with. Its a sign of a society which is breaking down, such as during the Plagues of Europe, or during the Holocaust, when the dead are no longer able to be treated with veneration, and instead are piled up in droves, burned, buried in mass graves, etc.
Cultural adaptations and physical adaptations are a spider web of cause and effects like this, and claiming that because a causative effect doesn't appear rational to YOU therefore it has no value is an immense presumption on your part, that will quite often be disproven by simply applying a different perspective or framework to the problem.
You can't pack a million people in a city without coming up with ways to respect all the dead people you're going to be dealing with. Its a sign of a society which is breaking down, such as during the Plagues of Europe, or during the Holocaust, when the dead are no longer able to be treated with veneration, and instead are piled up in droves, burned, buried in mass graves, etc.
Its actually the most relevant aspect of this, because ALL events which impact on human evolution, cultural and biological, come about as useful side effects of gradual change...that's the entire point. Discarding the useful side effects because you think the initial change which led to them is irrationally based is a terrible idea, because you're losing all the benefits that go with it. Sickle cell anemia would be a good example of this. Its completely irrational, biologically, to have sickle cell anemia propensity on a genetic level. It raises your chances of dying early. Except in areas where there's lots of mosquitos. Then people with one of the two alleles which cause sickle cell anemia have an inherently much greater resistence to the negative effects of malaria, and now what is the side effect of a completely irrational mutation leads to increased survivability.
Cultural adaptations and physical adaptations are a spider web of cause and effects like this, and claiming that because a causative effect doesn't appear rational to YOU therefore it has no value is an immense presumption on your part, that will quite often be disproven by simply applying a different perspective or framework to the problem.
earthfell
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I feel like this debate is more about semantics than it is about abortion. The semantics focus is a tactic used by pro-lifers (and to some extent pro-choicers) to create a link that could be argued in bills and in court
abortion = termination of zygote
zygote = human
termination of human = murder
abortion = murder
murder = illegal
abortion = illegal
This is the basis of the personhood amendment. You guys are really pretending you don't see why this is a battlefield too (chaos)? Or is pretending to be innocently asking questions about the human life cycle a new tactic? Just admit you think abortion is murder and want to see it end.
abortion = termination of zygote
zygote = human
termination of human = murder
abortion = murder
murder = illegal
abortion = illegal
This is the basis of the personhood amendment. You guys are really pretending you don't see why this is a battlefield too (chaos)? Or is pretending to be innocently asking questions about the human life cycle a new tactic? Just admit you think abortion is murder and want to see it end.
TrollfaceDeux
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chaos
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But nobody brought up personhood amendments or legislation. I'll bet if you did the overwhelming majority here would be against it. And the person with the semantics issue is mainly Mikhail, who has aspergers or something. And I didn't see anyone asking questions about the human life cycle. And I think several pro-life people on these boards have stated, rightly so, that abortion is not murder. Murder is a legal definition. I'm pro-choice, bro. Of course I want to see abortion end, we should all be so lucky to live in a world that abortion was not necessary in. But we don't live in that world.
The bottom line is that it is a human. If that makes you uncomfortable, well that says something about your beliefs then I would imagine. Calling it something else doesn't make it true and doesn't counter any moral argument.
earthfell
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My point was that you are arguing the underlying logic/strategical trajectory of the personhood amendment. I don't care how you define the stuff inside a pregnant woman's uterus, but courts do. This is a battlefield too. Personally, I believe in applying the five second rule to abortion. After the woman drops her baby load, she has five seconds to pick it up and eat it or else she has to keep it.
chaos
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Us acknowledging here that yes, it is human and yes, it is stupid to try and reclassify it based on whatever arbitrary metric is not going to change the outcomes in the courts.
According to you and the women of the world it's about choice and nothing to do with it being a zygote, fetus, or baby. We are arguing because numbuts over there is actually the one trying to define "personhood" as the reason FOR abortion which is odd.
Face it. You are killing a baby because you choose to. It's legal. It's your choice and your body is the most important issue. Abort what you want. Don't piss on my head and call it rain though. It's a human.
You are right, we don't charge them with kidnapping but it's still illegal yet abortion isn't.
Corpses are humans guys, therefore they should be the afforded the same rights as living people.
HEARD IT HERE FIRST.
Some of you are making Mikhail's argument for him.
HEARD IT HERE FIRST.
Some of you are making Mikhail's argument for him.
TrollfaceDeux
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chaos
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TrollfaceDeux
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TrollfaceDeux
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