Actually playing Starcraft 2

Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
I just don't understand this game at all... deny the protoss third, then KILL it, snipe two colossi, I'm at 200/200 food, better upgrades, he marches, I lose. Fucking retarded, I do not understand ZvP at all. AT ALL. Invincible fucking units. I was on 5 bases and lost to a 2 base protoss... fuckin...
 
Fight

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,730
5,614
The only time I have any success against 200 army Protoss deathball's is when I make great use of Vipers and Infestors... and of course, having the bank/larva to remax twice more is usually a must.

Basically, you have to macro the entire game better than them up to that point and then micro better than them in the battle as well. That might ultimately buy you a chance to win... lol
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Fight_sl said:
The only time I have any success against 200 army Protoss deathball's is when I make great use of Vipers and Infestors... and of course, having the bank/larva to remax twice more is usually a must.

Basically, you have to macro the entire game better than them up to that point and then micro better than them in the battle as well. That might ultimately buy you a chance to win... lol
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He wasn't even fucking maxxed... my 25 mutas died to his stalkers, despite have a +2 damage over their 1/1. And the ground force got roflstomped by fucking colossi.

Oh, and then in another game, this protoss drops 3 pylons at my natural, and then proceeds to build two cannons and a gateway. How do you even defend against stupid all in shit like this? The only way is to kill the probe? Cause a pylon can't be dps'd down by drones. Fuckin 10 pooling against toss every game from now on. Fuck that race, fucking retarded.
 
Fight

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,730
5,614
Unless they are Immortal heavy, Ultras are pretty rape to Protoss armies as well. Zealots and Archons melt like butter, and if they are primarily Stalker a blinding cloud or fungal will fuck up their day.
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
God why did I switch to zerg?! Seems like Terrans are a lot less gay, but Protoss is just fucking gay as ever. I know I'm QQing, BUT FUCK THIS SHIT MAN! So frustrating!!!!!111!111!
 
T

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
Itlan_sl said:
He wasn't even fucking maxxed... my 25 mutas died to his stalkers, despite have a +2 damage over their 1/1. And the ground force got roflstomped by fucking colossi.

Oh, and then in another game, this protoss drops 3 pylons at my natural, and then proceeds to build two cannons and a gateway. How do you even defend against stupid all in shit like this? The only way is to kill the probe? Cause a pylon can't be dps'd down by drones. Fuckin 10 pooling against toss every game from now on. Fuck that race, fucking retarded.
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Are you doing hatch first? I mean it isn't like 3 pylons, two cannons and a gate are free. Expecially since apparently he went forge + pylon in his base somewhere. If you're losing to stuff like that you can only blame yourself because he literally dropped 750 minerals at your natural.
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Tenks_sl said:
Are you doing hatch first? I mean it isn't like 3 pylons, two cannons and a gate are free. Expecially since apparently he went forge + pylon in his base somewhere. If you're losing to stuff like that you can only blame yourself because he literally dropped 750 minerals at your natural.
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What do you suggest? Going pool first and getting fucking behind by a mile?
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Uhh, yes? That was the norm in WoL. The only map where you can afford to go hatch first is Whirlwind and maybe the toss didn't go forge first (usually not). Gateway first is suddenly viable and you act like you are entitled to BO advantage every game ?

Post replays, I'd love to see where you fucked up
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Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Hatch first is very risky on any 2 player map, since if the protoss goes 15 forge you will get your ass cannon rushed unless he botches his micro horribly. Pool first is the safe way to play and since ladder is 90% cheese, that's what you should do. 4 player maps is where hatch first and 6 pool become viable, since neither has to be scouted in time, so if you like to play dangerously, be my guest. Hatch first is optimal vs gateway expands, pool first is optimal vs forge expands to sum it up and unless you drone scout you have no idea what is happening.
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Zaphid_sl said:
Hatch first is very risky on any 2 player map, since if the protoss goes 15 forge you will get your ass cannon rushed unless he botches his micro horribly. Pool first is the safe way to play and since ladder is 90% cheese, that's what you should do. 4 player maps is where hatch first and 6 pool become viable, since neither has to be scouted in time, so if you like to play dangerously, be my guest. Hatch first is optimal vs gateway expands, pool first is optimal vs forge expands to sum it up and unless you drone scout you have no idea what is happening.
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Okay, so should I be getting up 2 queens before 3rd, or 3rd before queens then?
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Also what time do DTs hit and am I better going spores or lair? Vs. Terran opening DTs was a free win, with Z I'm losing a lot mainly cause I've been getting hit when my spores are finishing. >_> And then he just targets them down.
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Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Itlan_sl said:
Okay, so should I be getting up 2 queens before 3rd, or 3rd before queens then?
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I think 2 queens before third usually, unless you killed the scouting probe and he isn't trying to sneak a pylon somewhere for 4gate. You should be able to get the third before you saturate your 2 bases anyway and it's rather easy to be annoying with MsC and first zealot/stalker if you don't have the queens in place.

DTs, I honestly don't know, it differs based on whether it was FFE or gateway expand, I assume you have general scouting overlord looking for tech and gateways, but with the shrine being so cheap you can squeeze it in at any moment. Exercise clairvoyance, scouted TC and spinning forge. Stargate means no DTs on 2base. I think generally Lair should be on time to catch them unless it's blatant rush, but 4 DTs kill a hatchery before overseer can morph, so having 1 overseer when lair finishes at hand should help a lot. If you die to DTs, note the time and just build the spores a minute earlier. Best way to delayh DTs is to kill any proxy pylons, since the protoss usually has nothing on the map when he is rushing them. The more difficult version is the one that comes after 4gate pressure, if you don't see stargate units or immortals in his natural then it's probably DTs.
 
T

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
If you're losing to the same timing a bunch why aren't you reviewing the replay for the timing?
 
T

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
Opening DT is more viable since it costs less gas these days. So even if the DT opening gets scouted yeah it sucks and you're out some tech time but you're still sitting there with a TC so it transitions fairly smoothly into 2forge Templar while keeping the opponent in base with DTs until mobile detection is readily available. It isn't horribly risky but can easily hit a homerun to get a free win.

Also TL published Tail's DT rush w/ prism strategy so it is popular on the ladder by the hordes
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,642
16,692
Tenks_sl said:
Also TL published Tail's DT rush w/ prism strategy so it is popular on the ladder by the hordes
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Yep, thought I read that. Should have been more specific with my question. Been seeing a lot of prism DT rushes. It's pretty shitty and pretty fast.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
IMO the Tails build is actually pretty shitty for ladder (as all technical builds), sure it does a lot of damage, but good ladder terrans have that DT timing drilled into their head and if they absolutely can't rule out DTs, they will get turrets and your whole build is fucked. Optimal builds be damned, better safe than sorry. Then you have the most random shit, like proxy factories that will absolutely ruin your day and your mineral line. When it comes to laddering it's better to have more mechanically sound builds and perfect those.
 
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