Actually playing Starcraft 2
- Thread starter Zaphid
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Noodleface
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Itlan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Sooo... 6 base Z vs. 2 base Protoss and he wins cause idk wtf to do against sky Toss. Mutas - dead. Hydras - dead. Infestors - dead. Corruptors - LOL.
And I mean pure sky toss... like void rays, carriers, mama ship. Nothing on the ground. After I killed like 30 probes. iderno.
And I mean pure sky toss... like void rays, carriers, mama ship. Nothing on the ground. After I killed like 30 probes. iderno.
Sir Funk
Molten Core Raider
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Not really contributing much but I was just reading this thread on TL and it sounded like a fun way to play as Toss:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=412151Sooo... 6 base Z vs. 2 base Protoss and he wins cause idk wtf to do against sky Toss. Mutas - dead. Hydras - dead. Infestors - dead. Corruptors - LOL.
And I mean pure sky toss... like void rays, carriers, mama ship. Nothing on the ground. After I killed like 30 probes. iderno.
He isn't Toss he is a Zerg who somehow lets Toss amass a giant army of gas hungry units off 4 geysers without killing him. I'm sure it is purely because of imbalance.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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True, but asking for replay looks better than just saying somebody was being bad. 3 base muta/ling usually beats anything toss can do on 2base, unless you throw them at cannons or something. By the time he gets 10 phoenixes, you either have a whole map or he is mined out, because you just deny the third...
Noodleface
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Mass mutas are very good against toss.. sounds like you let him go for way too long before attacking, should've had constant pressure
This is the best I can do blindly. 6 bases vs 2... something in execution is wrong.
This is the best I can do blindly. 6 bases vs 2... something in execution is wrong.
Itlan
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It's just stupid he can play defensively and I can't.
And I didn't say anything about imbalance, I said I don't know how to deal with it. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I just don't understand ZvP. I don't understand any of the counters, because to me they don't fucking counter. I never feel in control of the game in ZvP, ever. Even fully scouted, better upgrade and "counters," I'm constantly losing. I don't have this problem in ZvT or ZvZ, ever. Do I lose? Of course, like when some idiot goes pure Raven and I go mass muta and all my mutas blow up (LOL). Or if I'm greedy, or my micro fails me in ling/bling wars. But that I can see wtf happened and know how to respond next time. Protoss, I just do not understand. TvP was a lot simpler (minus the storms, OH GOD THE STORMS), but I don't want to switch back. Terran always has to be offensive, which I fucking hate. I like to play defensively.
The issue with playing Protoss is almost always scouting and it is almost always harder to scout Protoss than other races. You need to scout for their timing attacks and you need to out-greed them if they aren't going for a timing attack. My issue for the longest time with TvP was I was using catch-all builds that would work greatifthe deadly 2base attack actually hit because I could deflect it but would completely crumble if they didn't go for that and simply went for faster bases, quicker upgrades and delayed tech. You really need to review the replay and figure out if the Toss was simply at +3 when your +2 was still in production, if he managed to secure 3 bases very easily (Toss is manageable on 2 bases and a nightmare to deal with on 3), or if he left himself wide open to an attack you didn't capitalize on. You will never figure this stuff out just playing the game so if you lose to a Protoss you almost always need to review the replay to figure out why things didn't go your way at least until you know for a certainty what went wrong.
Noodleface
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From my experience Zerg isn't really a "play defensively" type of race, at least to me anyways. I feel like if I'm not constantly vigilant and constantly applying pressure then I will fall way too far behind.
Itlan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I'm almost never aggressive in ZvT, and my win rate has to be 80%+. Granted, it's mostly Diamond/Masters, but whatever. ZvZ, eh. I'm okay at it, I certainly like it better than TvT (FUCK YOU TANKS). I guess I need to be more aggressive in ZvP, but I feel like they're just so good defensively... force fields, cannons, stalkers have great range.
And yeah Tenks, you're probably right. I try to be vigilant with scouting but it's tough sometimes. I need to sac more overlords I guess, I usually do one around 8 minutes, and then send in overseer once I have lair. That overseer ALWAYS sees the 5-8 gates coming down, and I'm like "here comes immortal/sentry all-in, let me make a fuckton of units!" /melt /cry /ragequit
Zerg is defensive in the droning phase and then switches roles after that. But all three races have the ability to play whichever way they really want. Some may be slightly better than others. Like early Zerg timings are much worse than early Protoss timings; but have far better tools to ego greed. However in HOTS Zerg is no longer the "I did nothing all game then I won" race they were in WoL. Their 200/200 army is the worst in the game now.
Itlan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Oh, I also saw this one build for the first time - hellion, thor, banshee. Luckily I had like 14 mutas before he could mass up thors and he built no turrets for some reason, so it fell apart, but what the fuck do I do against that if he had been smarter? Fast hive to broods?
Noodleface
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Take my advice with a grain of salt because I'm silver (LOL). I'm not particularly great, and I don't play against Diamond/masters
Broodlord most likely. Or like you said just a bunch of mutas. Thors are abysmal, even in decent numbers, against a magic boxed horde of upgraded mutas without support from marines. Also with that unit composition he has no ability to really attack so you should be able to comfortably drone to 80+ very quickly. You could probably beat the composition with Roach waves with sheer numbers due to eco.
Noodleface
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Evo choke @ ramp w/ spine + queen to completely defend your natural and main and have like 5-7 Roaches at your third w/ a spine and queen. It isn't that tough. I'm not saying go 80 drones off 2 lings. But honestly that is pretty much the standard response to reactor hellion in general. Then once you sac a OV and see a tech fact (ie: he is going mech for sure) you are given a fairly large timing to drone freely off just a few units.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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Spores+swarm hosts ? I mean that should be a no-brainer against any composition without tanks or marines.
Also, judging by your woes in ZvP, you are probably not looking at the upgrades of the toss, +3 air will fuck up anything 0/0.