Ancient Civilizations

Aldarion said:

Who said anything about linking the flood story to the Med? I made a very general statement that considering alternative histories almost requires that we have to doubt some of the official dating.


Some of you people just want to fight, and its boring.

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Maybe your post wasn't very clear?

Aldarion said:

Who said anything about linking the flood story to the Med? I made a very general statement that considering alternative histories almost requires that we have to doubt some of the official dating.


Some of you people just want to fight, and its boring.

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Keep in mind its Chris . There is no debatable proof that the floods mentioned were world ending catastrophes or that they were little bitty over filled rivers spilling into farmland. So Chris going out of his way to be contrarian about it is just as obnoxious as someone that is fully engulfed in their imagination about the severity of the floods in question.

Why anyone continues to take him seriously in any thread still confuses me. But hell, even I fall for his schtick from time to time.

Daidraco said:

Keep in mind its Chris . There is no debatable proof that the floods mentioned were world ending catastrophes or that they were little bitty over filled rivers spilling into farmland. So Chris going out of his way to be contrarian about it is just as obnoxious as someone that is fully engulfed in their imagination about the severity of the floods in question.

Why anyone continues to take him seriously in any thread still confuses me. But hell, even I fall for his schtick from time to time.

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Yeah floods so high they covered the Andes and drowned the entire world is just as viable as catastrophic flooding in Mesopotamia.

I was just being a contrarian, sorry.

There's just as much evidence that floods can cover mountain ranges as there is that they can cover farmland and cities on a plain.



Who am I to look at the origin of a myth and point out the most likely explaination.

Araysar said:

Well the Inca flood myth derives from the more primitive Andean cultures who talk about some form of great flood at least 4,500 years prior. This is the Caral culture who was on the other side of the Andes, 600+ miles away from Titicaca. So while its likely they were aware of Titicaca, its probably unlikely that they lived around it to experience flooding. However, their culture was founded around the city of Huaricanga which was only 10 miles away from the Pacific Ocean. So whatever flooding they might have experienced would have likely been from the Pacific ocean, not Titicaca.

The timing of the myth itself puts it roughly in same time frame as Sumerian flood myth, the earliest mention of which is written by Sumerians about 4,000 years ago (but the flood happened some time earlier). So the timing is very close. Mayans have a flood myth that supposedly emerged around same time, though that just might be timing with emergence of their culture around same time.

I've seen this theory more than a few times and it matches up well timewise and location wise to the various flood myths that unconnected cultures started establishing around the same time

Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood?

The universal human myth may be the first example of disaster reporting.

www.discovermagazine.com

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Did I not post the Incan flood myth that specifies Titicaca? What myth are you talking about? I couldn't find it, surely you have a link since you claim to know details of it.

Anyway I like that comet theory, it would be neat if all the myths were from the same time and global events can and did happen (usually volcanic eruptions).

But where is the physical evidence? Ice cores and similar do record these sorts of events.

It's also convinient that it's causing simultaneous tsunami and hurricanes to explain water everywhere.

Chris said:

Yeah floods so high they covered the Andes and drowned the entire world is just as viable as catastrophic flooding in Mesopotamia.

I was just being a contrarian, sorry.

There's just as much evidence that floods can cover mountain ranges as there is that they can cover farmland and cities on a plain.

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Who am I to look at the origin of a myth and point out the most likely explaination.

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a lot of these "myths" are tied to religious beliefs and some people do not want to get involved in such a politically charged issue such as "did the events in the bible really happen?" so instead people leave everything open ended, so they dont shit on religious people or shit on the atheists. archeology is paid for by funding, if you find a result that contradicts the views of the people funding you, you dont get funded for much longer. this goes both ways. so if you are on a secular expedition and find something that confirms a religious event, you may be expected to downplay it or not report on it. same goes for a religiously funded expedition that confirms nothing happened. lot of politics in there. keep that in mind.

we dont know what happened after a certain point in time and some of the reporting may be biased to begin with. Nero was famously painted as a fucking asshole for hundreds of years due to one account. facts contradict that account so Nero is not portrayed in such a villainous light anymore.

Chris said:

Maybe your post wasn't very clear?

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No, you have a problem with getting confused about who's saying what. These conversations are made up of a bunch of different people saying different things, but you wade in here like "its Chris against The World!" and just start swinging, not bothering to tailor your responses to the posts you click "reply" on.

Its boring.

There was nothing even a little bit unclear about my post.

Aldarion said:

I don't know the details about this particular event so I'm not saying you're wrong. I assume you've got this detail right in terms of mainstream archaeology and dating, etc.

All I'm saying is that aside from certain kinds of carbon dating (in relics from living things) the science of dating is much less certain, and with much bigger error bars, than the mainstream interpretations admit. But the "official" story rests on dating evidence as if it was solid and absolute truth.

I'm just saying, if we want to consider alternative stories for human history, we almost have to accept that a lot of dating is probably wrong. Some of it could be hilariously wrong. There are a lot of bad assumptions baked in.

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Can you explain the bad assumptions line?

The problem I have with all these frauds preaching on youtube about lost civilizations is they can't keep their stories straight. They constantly change their stories to fit whatever they're talking about at the moment. They never go back and acknowledge that thing they have claimed in the past were wrong mostly it seems because they want to be able to change back to those old views if the current thing in focus requires it.

Siddar said:

The problem I have with all these frauds preaching on youtube about lost civilizations is they can't keep their stories straight. They constantly change their stories to fit whatever they're talking about at the moment. They never go back and acknowledge that thing they have claimed in the past were wrong mostly it seems because they want to be able to change back to those old views if the current thing in focus requires it.

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i think you're being way too vague. i have seen the videos i posted and perhaps i can explain the parts you are having a problem with? it may seem these guys are changing their stories, because some cultures were more advanced than others so their situation may be different.

10000 BC. there was a mass extinction event across the globe.
due to the massive deaths, many cultures and civilizations were wiped off the planet. we are only just now rediscovering their existence through excavations. some people have theories on how all this happened and their theories may change over time due to those archeological excavations and the evidence. in Egypt there are many mysteries that seem to contradict what those historians claiming that all those massive megalithic structures were built over the course of a few thousand years in the past. too many structures that simply can not be duplicated using the copper or bronze tools even if you zerg them with unskilled slaves. you will not be coming up with this.

or this

or this

there is just too much stuff to be handwaved away. who gives a good fuck if somebody's "story" isnt right. look at the abundance of evidence just laying around and decide for yourself. alls i know is that this

didnt make this 4000 years ago

Araysar said:

Well the Inca flood myth derives from the more primitive Andean cultures who talk about some form of great flood at least 4,500 years prior. This is the Caral culture who was on the other side of the Andes, 600+ miles away from Titicaca. So while its likely they were aware of Titicaca, its probably unlikely that they lived around it to experience flooding. However, their culture was founded around the city of Huaricanga which was only 10 miles away from the Pacific Ocean. So whatever flooding they might have experienced would have likely been from the Pacific ocean, not Titicaca.

The timing of the myth itself puts it roughly in same time frame as Sumerian flood myth, the earliest mention of which is written by Sumerians about 4,000 years ago (but the flood happened some time earlier). So the timing is very close. Mayans have a flood myth that supposedly emerged around same time, though that just might be timing with emergence of their culture around same time.

I've seen this theory more than a few times and it matches up well timewise and location wise to the various flood myths that unconnected cultures started establishing around the same time

Did a Comet Cause the Great Flood?

The universal human myth may be the first example of disaster reporting.

www.discovermagazine.com

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Easier explanation is stories of the breaking of Glacier lakes getting passed down through the generations as humans settled the Americas. This is the easiest explanation for all great flood stories.

Humans could have been in the Americas for some of these particular events and they also happened all across the world at the end of the last glacier maximum (love this video, so it needs to be in more threads (credit to Siddar ):

There seems to be three major camps in the ancient conspiracy movement. The first are the bible thumpers who are hell-bent on proving the earth is 6000 years old because they believe it is written in the bible when it's not. The second is what I call the new age crowd which is split between a more religious pagan types and more pseudo-science types. Third is the aliens' crowd split between the aliens came from the star and no they came from another dimension.

The new ageist and aliens crowd are more flexible than the bible thumpers. The thumpers are very ridged in viewpoint to the point where they have to make up things to substitute for science in order to make their worldview work. The new ageist and aliens people are more flexible and will grab anything they feel can fit their world views somehow even if it contradicts prior views.

The only thing they all agree upon is the current archeological community is wrong! Even though their entire arguments are based upon cherry-picking things in isolation and misinterpreting those same things to support their arguments.

Currently, we seem to be in a fad that has brought the new ageist pseudo-science to the forefront that is until the next fad takes hold.