Ancient Civilizations

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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Well you need to look at the major part of it logically.

Logically, humans will build things out of things that humans can move around. Leading to the obvious rational conclusions of uniform bricks as seen throughout the known world. Sumerians figured that one out and their tar sealed sun dried clay brick buildings lasted thousands of years.

But a few thousand years before that ancient humanity couldn't grasp the idea of small rock easier to carry around than big rock. So they used completely unwieldy gigantic rocks for everything that would be an insane jigsaw puzzle to maneuver into place. Or they knew something lost to time. This knowledge was clearly widespread across the globe at some point. So what happened? Why isn't it obvious to figure out today with our superior experience and science?
 
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TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
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There seems to be three major camps in the ancient conspiracy movement. The first are the bible thumpers who are hell-bent on proving the earth is 6000 years old because they believe it is written in the bible when it's not. The second is what I call the new age crowd which is split between a more religious pagan types and more pseudo-science types. Third is the aliens' crowd split between the aliens came from the star and no they came from another dimension.

The new ageist and aliens crowd are more flexible than the bible thumpers. The thumpers are very ridged in viewpoint to the point where they have to make up things to substitute for science in order to make their worldview work. The new ageist and aliens people are more flexible and will grab anything they feel can fit their world views somehow even if it contradicts prior views.

The only thing they all agree upon is the current archeological community is wrong! Even though their entire arguments are based upon cherry-picking things in isolation and misinterpreting those same things to support their arguments.

Currently, we seem to be in a fad that has brought the new ageist pseudo-science to the forefront that is until the next fad takes hold.
You are referring exclusively to American Protestant Christian Fundamentalists. This is the only group that take the scripture of as exact literal truth and thus force themselves to bend reality to make it also forensically true. This is a fringe group of Christians in the best of cases.
 
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Palum

what Suineg set it to
26,665
41,681
Well you need to look at the major part of it logically.

Logically, humans will build things out of things that humans can move around. Leading to the obvious rational conclusions of uniform bricks as seen throughout the known world. Sumerians figured that one out and their tar sealed sun dried clay brick buildings lasted thousands of years.

But a few thousand years before that ancient humanity couldn't grasp the idea of small rock easier to carry around than big rock. So they used completely unwieldy gigantic rocks for everything that would be an insane jigsaw puzzle to maneuver into place. Or they knew something lost to time. This knowledge was clearly widespread across the globe at some point. So what happened? Why isn't it obvious to figure out today with our superior experience and science?
I don't think this is true. First, if you look back throughout history there is a clear correlation between grandeur and construction scale. It's obvious that humans on the whole prefer larger materials aesthetically, at least for monuments and tombs and temples and such.

So really the only question is was there a way? It's hard for moderns and postmoderns to rationalize something so inefficient as these simple leverage machine construction techniques, but we do have plenty of recorded evidence of in some ways no less grand massive construction projects like cathedrals taking many generations.

You also have to figure most tribes were smaller and on the periphery of the few civilizations of their time, and these techniques were technology that was going to be well guarded.

It seems far more irrational to go looking for more complex or improbable reasons for these large constructions.
 

Guurn

<Bronze Donator>
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The problem I have with all these frauds preaching on youtube about lost civilizations is they can't keep their stories straight. They constantly change their stories to fit whatever they're talking about at the moment. They never go back and acknowledge that thing they have claimed in the past were wrong mostly it seems because they want to be able to change back to those old views if the current thing in focus requires it.
To be fair that is exactly what scientists do.
 
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Siddar

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,457
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You are referring exclusively to American Protestant Christian Fundamentalists. This is the only group that take the scripture of as exact literal truth and thus force themselves to bend reality to make it also forensically true. This is a fringe group of Christians in the best of cases.
Yes, I'm referring to a segment of Christianity, not the whole that is mostly American though. I think it is a myth when people claim they're only in America. There is a large minority probably around five percent of people worldwide who believe that shit. But only American fundamentalist churches tolerate it and give it a platform.
 
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Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
i think you're being way too vague. i have seen the videos i posted and perhaps i can explain the parts you are having a problem with? it may seem these guys are changing their stories, because some cultures were more advanced than others so their situation may be different.

10000 BC. there was a mass extinction event across the globe.
due to the massive deaths, many cultures and civilizations were wiped off the planet. we are only just now rediscovering their existence through excavations. some people have theories on how all this happened and their theories may change over time due to those archeological excavations and the evidence. in Egypt there are many mysteries that seem to contradict what those historians claiming that all those massive megalithic structures were built over the course of a few thousand years in the past. too many structures that simply can not be duplicated using the copper or bronze tools even if you zerg them with unskilled slaves. you will not be coming up with this.
5718939371_08a848e656_b.jpg

or this
iu

or this
IMG_0674.jpg

there is just too much stuff to be handwaved away. who gives a good fuck if somebody's "story" isnt right. look at the abundance of evidence just laying around and decide for yourself. alls i know is that this
iu

didnt make this 4000 years ago
maxresdefault.jpg
Do you have any basis for this viewpoint of the tools being impossible?

I sounds like "As someone who has been through the American education system and watched some amateur archeological conspiracy videos, I reckon..."

Some of you are the living embodiment of this:
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,998
214,284
There seems to be three major camps in the ancient conspiracy movement. The first are the bible thumpers who are hell-bent on proving the earth is 6000 years old because they believe it is written in the bible when it's not. The second is what I call the new age crowd which is split between a more religious pagan types and more pseudo-science types. Third is the aliens' crowd split between the aliens came from the star and no they came from another dimension.

The new ageist and aliens crowd are more flexible than the bible thumpers. The thumpers are very ridged in viewpoint to the point where they have to make up things to substitute for science in order to make their worldview work. The new ageist and aliens people are more flexible and will grab anything they feel can fit their world views somehow even if it contradicts prior views.

The only thing they all agree upon is the current archeological community is wrong! Even though their entire arguments are based upon cherry-picking things in isolation and misinterpreting those same things to support their arguments.

Currently, we seem to be in a fad that has brought the new ageist pseudo-science to the forefront that is until the next fad takes hold.
there are the bible thumpers trying to legitimize their religions by proving the bible is a historical document. the bible is a knockoff of the Epic of Gilgamesh which is thousands of years older and may be a knockoff of an even older story by the ancient Egyptians who may have gotten that from somewhere else. the camp that i come from and the people who make the videos i post is, we dont have any specific agenda. none of us are trying to prove there are space aliens or space jesus or any of that shit. we simply are asking questions about these structures which are much older than they are given credit for. who were these extreme ancients, what happened to them and just how far back does this rabbit hole go?
 

Guurn

<Bronze Donator>
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Cool. When and how?
Literally every time they find new evidence about anything. They just move on and say nothing about their incorrect statements in the past other than, the evidence we currently have points to whatever. I could pick any topic really. The age of the universe, dinosaurs, human migration, neadrathals etc etc
 
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Sylas

<Gold Donor>
3,692
4,228
Not to interrupt but can we approach this from a different angle?

you guys get so carried away talking about rocks and tools and shit. We talk about rocks because on a long enough time line carefully stacked piles of rocks are about the only thing that survives through the ages to leave evidence that a society existed which created it. Time and the environment pretty much erodes away everything else, and hell given a long enough timeline even rocks wear away. (Look at the Sphinx and the erosion it experienced)

We like to think that, if our modern society were to collapse to some catastrophic event we'd leave behind more evidence than just carefully stacked rocks but the reality is nah, not really. a few thousand years and there would be virtually no evidence that we existed beyond some carefully stacked rocks. Virtually everything recording our existence is digital now, on computer chips which last less than 1 decade. Even our books only last a few hundred years. without human beings to maintain it, rust and time will claim the steel, the skyscrapers, the concrete buildings, everything. In a few thousand years the only evidence we existed would be the nuclear waste which we fucking buried to prevent future intelligent beings from accidently killing themselves by being exposed to it.

So the one thing we know for sure is that we really don't know that much. The timeline for when civilization began continues to get pushed back the more we dig up and discover, currently its what 12k years with Gobekli Tepe and similar sites? And the archaeological timeline for anatomically modern man keeps getting pushed back as well, it was 200k years but recent discoveries puts it at closer to 300k, and maybe even 400k years?

This belief that we were cavemen hunter/gatherers for 300k+ years then suddenly 12k years ago we just one day started building massive temples and learned agriculture is pretty fucking ridiculous, which is what spawns all these alternative theories. Religious or otherwise it doesn't matter, even biblical creationists who support a 6k year old earth aren't any less wrong that currently accepted archaeological theory. They are both wildly wrong.

So forget about rocks. fuck em. Let's talk about Nylon.

When I was a kid going through school I remember learning about the craziest shit, bacteria which had developed the proteins/amino acids/whatever to digest Nylon. Nylon had been invented and commercially sold back in 1940, and these bacteria had been discovered by 1985. Keep in mind I was a kid in the 90s and "popular science" typically lags behind about a decade after scientific breakthroughs like that occur, so talking early to mid 90s news of this bacteria was making the rounds. It was amazing that it took bacteria only 40 years to evolve the ability to eat this new man-made material, this radically changed the thinking on how much time evolution required before major mutations could happen, completely changed timelines, went a long way towards explaining some questionable timelines like the pre-Cambrian explosion, etc. I remember specifically there being a lot of push back about evolution being taught in schools (grew up in the south) and about how this recent discovery was absolute proof of evolution, etc etc.


Fast forward to a few years ago. Well, remember popular science is typically 10 years behind the curve so I just learned about it a few years ago but it happened back in 2007. Turns out, as our understanding of DNA improved and we started mapping out genomes and such, we fully mapped the genome of these Nylon eating bacteria and made a startling discovery. Turns out the genetic code and proteins required to digest Nylon already existed in those bacteria, in fact nearly all bacteria share a similar DNA sequence that, with minor modification/simple mutation would allow them to digest Nylon.

Turns out, bacteria has seen Nylon before. At some point along the eons of genetic memory bacteria has been exposed to nylon long ago, evolved the ability to digest it, and then over time "lost" that ability due to no longer requiring it/being exposed to the material. This is why it took bacteria only 40 years to regain the ability.

Remember Nylon is not naturally occurring, it is 100% man-made. At some point in the 300k+ year history of anatomically modern man a civilization arose that invented Nylon. they are lost to history. civilizations have risen and been wiped out, probably happened 10-20 times due to all sorts of cataclysmic events throughout history. All the rocks and carvings are just evidence of the latest lost civilization from only 12k years ago. There were many more before it. Even rocks erode. 300k+ years of Einstein's and Shakespeare's and Plato's and Newton's. They invented Nylon, and the proof of it is embedded in the Genetic code of the bacteria that eats it. We did not spend 288k years as ooga booga hunter/gatherers before figuring out how to plant crops. We rediscovered it over and over again or it was passed down to us by survivors of the previous civilization that had that knowledge.

If we all get wiped out in WW3 and beyond a few stragglers the only people who survive are the uncontacted tribes throughout the amazon, africa, sentinel island, etc what will their oral tradition and myths about us say? After a few thousand years of that oral history, when society starts over again, how will they describe the mushroom clouds of nuclear war that wiped out us, the before people? Will they describe us as Gods the way the bible and other religious texts describe our predecessors?
 
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Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,998
214,284
Not to interrupt but can we approach this from a different angle?

you guys get so carried away talking about rocks and tools and shit. We talk about rocks because on a long enough time line carefully stacked piles of rocks are about the only thing that survives through the ages to leave evidence that a society existed which created it. Time and the environment pretty much erodes away everything else, and hell given a long enough timeline even rocks wear away. (Look at the Sphinx and the erosion it experienced)

We like to think that, if our modern society were to collapse to some catastrophic event we'd leave behind more evidence than just carefully stacked rocks but the reality is nah, not really. a few thousand years and there would be virtually no evidence that we existed beyond some carefully stacked rocks. Virtually everything recording our existence is digital now, on computer chips which last less than 1 decade. Even our books only last a few hundred years. without human beings to maintain it, rust and time will claim the steel, the skyscrapers, the concrete buildings, everything. In a few thousand years the only evidence we existed would be the nuclear waste which we fucking buried to prevent future intelligent beings from accidently killing themselves by being exposed to it.

So the one thing we know for sure is that we really don't know that much. The timeline for when civilization began continues to get pushed back the more we dig up and discover, currently its what 12k years with Gobekli Tepe and similar sites? And the archaeological timeline for anatomically modern man keeps getting pushed back as well, it was 200k years but recent discoveries puts it at closer to 300k, and maybe even 400k years?

This belief that we were cavemen hunter/gatherers for 300k+ years then suddenly 12k years ago we just one day started building massive temples and learned agriculture is pretty fucking ridiculous, which is what spawns all these alternative theories. Religious or otherwise it doesn't matter, even biblical creationists who support a 6k year old earth aren't any less wrong that currently accepted archaeological theory. They are both wildly wrong.

So forget about rocks. fuck em. Let's talk about Nylon.

When I was a kid going through school I remember learning about the craziest shit, bacteria which had developed the proteins/amino acids/whatever to digest Nylon. Nylon had been invented and commercially sold back in 1940, and these bacteria had been discovered by 1985. Keep in mind I was a kid in the 90s and "popular science" typically lags behind about a decade after scientific breakthroughs like that occur, so talking early to mid 90s news of this bacteria was making the rounds. It was amazing that it took bacteria only 40 years to evolve the ability to eat this new man-made material, this radically changed the thinking on how much time evolution required before major mutations could happen, completely changed timelines, went a long way towards explaining some questionable timelines like the pre-Cambrian explosion, etc. I remember specifically there being a lot of push back about evolution being taught in schools (grew up in the south) and about how this recent discovery was absolute proof of evolution, etc etc.


Fast forward to a few years ago. Well, remember popular science is typically 10 years behind the curve so I just learned about it a few years ago but it happened back in 2007. Turns out, as our understanding of DNA improved and we started mapping out genomes and such, we fully mapped the genome of these Nylon eating bacteria and made a startling discovery. Turns out the genetic code and proteins required to digest Nylon already existed in those bacteria, in fact nearly all bacteria share a similar DNA sequence that, with minor modification/simple mutation would allow them to digest Nylon.

Turns out, bacteria has seen Nylon before. At some point along the eons of genetic memory bacteria has been exposed to nylon long ago, evolved the ability to digest it, and then over time "lost" that ability due to no longer requiring it/being exposed to the material. This is why it took bacteria only 40 years to regain the ability.

Remember Nylon is not naturally occurring, it is 100% man-made. At some point in the 300k+ year history of anatomically modern man a civilization arose that invented Nylon. they are lost to history. civilizations have risen and been wiped out, probably happened 10-20 times due to all sorts of cataclysmic events throughout history. All the rocks and carvings are just evidence of the latest lost civilization from only 12k years ago. There were many more before it. Even rocks erode. 300k+ years of Einstein's and Shakespeare's and Plato's and Newton's. They invented Nylon, and the proof of it is embedded in the Genetic code of the bacteria that eats it. We did not spend 288k years as ooga booga hunter/gatherers before figuring out how to plant crops. We rediscovered it over and over again or it was passed down to us by survivors of the previous civilization that had that knowledge.
the new old is 23000 year old footprints in New Mexico.
 

Siddar

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,457
6,003
Literally every time they find new evidence about anything. They just move on and say nothing about their incorrect statements in the past other than, the evidence we currently have points to whatever. I could pick any topic really. The age of the universe, dinosaurs, human migration, neadrathals etc etc
Give me an example of this?
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
Literally every time they find new evidence about anything. They just move on and say nothing about their incorrect statements in the past other than, the evidence we currently have points to whatever. I could pick any topic really. The age of the universe, dinosaurs, human migration, neadrathals etc etc
Scientists, after finding better/new evidence, outline the flaws in the old theory and how the new slightly better theory fits better. This happens occasionally.

Ancient archetect conspiracists will adopt a theory based on one point of confirmation bias, then swing to a wildly different theory when some other grifter has a more popular idea.

Like are the Pyramids a tomb, a tomb that's older than we think, part of a leyline energy grid, a harmonic power plant, a water pumping station, a doomsday shelter or a landing pad for spaceships?

That's not equivalent to a scientist remeasuring light from stars after a telescope upgrade and coming up with a better estimate.
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
Not to interrupt but can we approach this from a different angle?

you guys get so carried away talking about rocks and tools and shit. We talk about rocks because on a long enough time line carefully stacked piles of rocks are about the only thing that survives through the ages to leave evidence that a society existed which created it. Time and the environment pretty much erodes away everything else, and hell given a long enough timeline even rocks wear away. (Look at the Sphinx and the erosion it experienced)

We like to think that, if our modern society were to collapse to some catastrophic event we'd leave behind more evidence than just carefully stacked rocks but the reality is nah, not really. a few thousand years and there would be virtually no evidence that we existed beyond some carefully stacked rocks. Virtually everything recording our existence is digital now, on computer chips which last less than 1 decade. Even our books only last a few hundred years. without human beings to maintain it, rust and time will claim the steel, the skyscrapers, the concrete buildings, everything. In a few thousand years the only evidence we existed would be the nuclear waste which we fucking buried to prevent future intelligent beings from accidently killing themselves by being exposed to it.

So the one thing we know for sure is that we really don't know that much. The timeline for when civilization began continues to get pushed back the more we dig up and discover, currently its what 12k years with Gobekli Tepe and similar sites? And the archaeological timeline for anatomically modern man keeps getting pushed back as well, it was 200k years but recent discoveries puts it at closer to 300k, and maybe even 400k years?

This belief that we were cavemen hunter/gatherers for 300k+ years then suddenly 12k years ago we just one day started building massive temples and learned agriculture is pretty fucking ridiculous, which is what spawns all these alternative theories. Religious or otherwise it doesn't matter, even biblical creationists who support a 6k year old earth aren't any less wrong that currently accepted archaeological theory. They are both wildly wrong.

So forget about rocks. fuck em. Let's talk about Nylon.

When I was a kid going through school I remember learning about the craziest shit, bacteria which had developed the proteins/amino acids/whatever to digest Nylon. Nylon had been invented and commercially sold back in 1940, and these bacteria had been discovered by 1985. Keep in mind I was a kid in the 90s and "popular science" typically lags behind about a decade after scientific breakthroughs like that occur, so talking early to mid 90s news of this bacteria was making the rounds. It was amazing that it took bacteria only 40 years to evolve the ability to eat this new man-made material, this radically changed the thinking on how much time evolution required before major mutations could happen, completely changed timelines, went a long way towards explaining some questionable timelines like the pre-Cambrian explosion, etc. I remember specifically there being a lot of push back about evolution being taught in schools (grew up in the south) and about how this recent discovery was absolute proof of evolution, etc etc.


Fast forward to a few years ago. Well, remember popular science is typically 10 years behind the curve so I just learned about it a few years ago but it happened back in 2007. Turns out, as our understanding of DNA improved and we started mapping out genomes and such, we fully mapped the genome of these Nylon eating bacteria and made a startling discovery. Turns out the genetic code and proteins required to digest Nylon already existed in those bacteria, in fact nearly all bacteria share a similar DNA sequence that, with minor modification/simple mutation would allow them to digest Nylon.

Turns out, bacteria has seen Nylon before. At some point along the eons of genetic memory bacteria has been exposed to nylon long ago, evolved the ability to digest it, and then over time "lost" that ability due to no longer requiring it/being exposed to the material. This is why it took bacteria only 40 years to regain the ability.

Remember Nylon is not naturally occurring, it is 100% man-made. At some point in the 300k+ year history of anatomically modern man a civilization arose that invented Nylon. they are lost to history. civilizations have risen and been wiped out, probably happened 10-20 times due to all sorts of cataclysmic events throughout history. All the rocks and carvings are just evidence of the latest lost civilization from only 12k years ago. There were many more before it. Even rocks erode. 300k+ years of Einstein's and Shakespeare's and Plato's and Newton's. They invented Nylon, and the proof of it is embedded in the Genetic code of the bacteria that eats it. We did not spend 288k years as ooga booga hunter/gatherers before figuring out how to plant crops. We rediscovered it over and over again or it was passed down to us by survivors of the previous civilization that had that knowledge.

If we all get wiped out in WW3 and beyond a few stragglers the only people who survive are the uncontacted tribes throughout the amazon, africa, sentinel island, etc what will their oral tradition and myths about us say? After a few thousand years of that oral history, when society starts over again, how will they describe the mushroom clouds of nuclear war that wiped out us, the before people? Will they describe us as Gods the way the bible and other religious texts describe our predecessors?
There's some truth to this, I think there were probably most sophisticated societies than we thought using perishable materials like wood on coastlines and it's all lost.

But we are talking organised societies, trade and maybe earlier agriculture - not nylon production. That gene probably digests a similar natural material and it's good enough for nylon too.
 

Siddar

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
6,457
6,003
there are the bible thumpers trying to legitimize their religions by proving the bible is a historical document. the bible is a knockoff of the Epic of Gilgamesh which is thousands of years older and may be a knockoff of an even older story by the ancient Egyptians who may have gotten that from somewhere else. the camp that i come from and the people who make the videos i post is, we dont have any specific agenda. none of us are trying to prove there are space aliens or space jesus or any of that shit. we simply are asking questions about these structures which are much older than they are given credit for. who were these extreme ancients, what happened to them and just how far back does this rabbit hole go?
Most people involved with ancient civilization conspiracies are of live and let live type they generally have the view of believing whatever you want. The main problem is the leaders the Graham Hancocks, Randal Cunninghams, and Uncharted X who are just farming stupid people for money. Then you add the thousands of people grifting off people in church doing it as well. All of whom then spend an inordinate amount of time telling their marks, to not believe anyone from academia because academia are the one who are in on the actual conspiracy
 
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TheBeagle

JunkiesNetwork Donor
8,761
30,475
Not to interrupt but can we approach this from a different angle?

you guys get so carried away talking about rocks and tools and shit. We talk about rocks because on a long enough time line carefully stacked piles of rocks are about the only thing that survives through the ages to leave evidence that a society existed which created it. Time and the environment pretty much erodes away everything else, and hell given a long enough timeline even rocks wear away. (Look at the Sphinx and the erosion it experienced)

We like to think that, if our modern society were to collapse to some catastrophic event we'd leave behind more evidence than just carefully stacked rocks but the reality is nah, not really. a few thousand years and there would be virtually no evidence that we existed beyond some carefully stacked rocks. Virtually everything recording our existence is digital now, on computer chips which last less than 1 decade. Even our books only last a few hundred years. without human beings to maintain it, rust and time will claim the steel, the skyscrapers, the concrete buildings, everything. In a few thousand years the only evidence we existed would be the nuclear waste which we fucking buried to prevent future intelligent beings from accidently killing themselves by being exposed to it.

So the one thing we know for sure is that we really don't know that much. The timeline for when civilization began continues to get pushed back the more we dig up and discover, currently its what 12k years with Gobekli Tepe and similar sites? And the archaeological timeline for anatomically modern man keeps getting pushed back as well, it was 200k years but recent discoveries puts it at closer to 300k, and maybe even 400k years?

This belief that we were cavemen hunter/gatherers for 300k+ years then suddenly 12k years ago we just one day started building massive temples and learned agriculture is pretty fucking ridiculous, which is what spawns all these alternative theories. Religious or otherwise it doesn't matter, even biblical creationists who support a 6k year old earth aren't any less wrong that currently accepted archaeological theory. They are both wildly wrong.

So forget about rocks. fuck em. Let's talk about Nylon.

When I was a kid going through school I remember learning about the craziest shit, bacteria which had developed the proteins/amino acids/whatever to digest Nylon. Nylon had been invented and commercially sold back in 1940, and these bacteria had been discovered by 1985. Keep in mind I was a kid in the 90s and "popular science" typically lags behind about a decade after scientific breakthroughs like that occur, so talking early to mid 90s news of this bacteria was making the rounds. It was amazing that it took bacteria only 40 years to evolve the ability to eat this new man-made material, this radically changed the thinking on how much time evolution required before major mutations could happen, completely changed timelines, went a long way towards explaining some questionable timelines like the pre-Cambrian explosion, etc. I remember specifically there being a lot of push back about evolution being taught in schools (grew up in the south) and about how this recent discovery was absolute proof of evolution, etc etc.


Fast forward to a few years ago. Well, remember popular science is typically 10 years behind the curve so I just learned about it a few years ago but it happened back in 2007. Turns out, as our understanding of DNA improved and we started mapping out genomes and such, we fully mapped the genome of these Nylon eating bacteria and made a startling discovery. Turns out the genetic code and proteins required to digest Nylon already existed in those bacteria, in fact nearly all bacteria share a similar DNA sequence that, with minor modification/simple mutation would allow them to digest Nylon.

Turns out, bacteria has seen Nylon before. At some point along the eons of genetic memory bacteria has been exposed to nylon long ago, evolved the ability to digest it, and then over time "lost" that ability due to no longer requiring it/being exposed to the material. This is why it took bacteria only 40 years to regain the ability.

Remember Nylon is not naturally occurring, it is 100% man-made. At some point in the 300k+ year history of anatomically modern man a civilization arose that invented Nylon. they are lost to history. civilizations have risen and been wiped out, probably happened 10-20 times due to all sorts of cataclysmic events throughout history. All the rocks and carvings are just evidence of the latest lost civilization from only 12k years ago. There were many more before it. Even rocks erode. 300k+ years of Einstein's and Shakespeare's and Plato's and Newton's. They invented Nylon, and the proof of it is embedded in the Genetic code of the bacteria that eats it. We did not spend 288k years as ooga booga hunter/gatherers before figuring out how to plant crops. We rediscovered it over and over again or it was passed down to us by survivors of the previous civilization that had that knowledge.

If we all get wiped out in WW3 and beyond a few stragglers the only people who survive are the uncontacted tribes throughout the amazon, africa, sentinel island, etc what will their oral tradition and myths about us say? After a few thousand years of that oral history, when society starts over again, how will they describe the mushroom clouds of nuclear war that wiped out us, the before people? Will they describe us as Gods the way the bible and other religious texts describe our predecessors?
PVC. Thousands of miles of it buried in every place humans exist. Not all of would survive but a lot of that shit will still be buried under abandoned habitations tens of thousands of years from. Especially in more arid climates with quiet geology.
 
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Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,998
214,284
Most people involved with ancient civilization conspiracies are of live and let live type they generally have the view of believing whatever you want. The main problem is the leaders the Graham Hancocks, Randal Cunninghams, and Uncharted X who are just farming stupid people for money. Then you add the thousands of people grifting off people in church doing it as well. All of whom then spend an inordinate amount of time telling their marks, to not believe anyone from academia because academia are the one who are in on the actual conspiracy
i see you are being purposefully vague. its ok. i knew you were doing that to begin with so you could make your blanket dismissal of this entire thread. Chris does this often with his ancient aliens and ley lines schtick. i pretend i dont see it, but its there. its much easier to dismiss an entire group without actually giving any attention to their claims.
 
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Burns

Avatar of War Slayer
7,455
14,683
Not to interrupt but can we approach this from a different angle?

you guys get so carried away talking about rocks and tools and shit. We talk about rocks because on a long enough time line carefully stacked piles of rocks are about the only thing that survives through the ages to leave evidence that a society existed which created it. Time and the environment pretty much erodes away everything else, and hell given a long enough timeline even rocks wear away. (Look at the Sphinx and the erosion it experienced)

We like to think that, if our modern society were to collapse to some catastrophic event we'd leave behind more evidence than just carefully stacked rocks but the reality is nah, not really. a few thousand years and there would be virtually no evidence that we existed beyond some carefully stacked rocks. Virtually everything recording our existence is digital now, on computer chips which last less than 1 decade. Even our books only last a few hundred years. without human beings to maintain it, rust and time will claim the steel, the skyscrapers, the concrete buildings, everything. In a few thousand years the only evidence we existed would be the nuclear waste which we fucking buried to prevent future intelligent beings from accidently killing themselves by being exposed to it.

So the one thing we know for sure is that we really don't know that much. The timeline for when civilization began continues to get pushed back the more we dig up and discover, currently its what 12k years with Gobekli Tepe and similar sites? And the archaeological timeline for anatomically modern man keeps getting pushed back as well, it was 200k years but recent discoveries puts it at closer to 300k, and maybe even 400k years?

This belief that we were cavemen hunter/gatherers for 300k+ years then suddenly 12k years ago we just one day started building massive temples and learned agriculture is pretty fucking ridiculous, which is what spawns all these alternative theories. Religious or otherwise it doesn't matter, even biblical creationists who support a 6k year old earth aren't any less wrong that currently accepted archaeological theory. They are both wildly wrong.

So forget about rocks. fuck em. Let's talk about Nylon.

When I was a kid going through school I remember learning about the craziest shit, bacteria which had developed the proteins/amino acids/whatever to digest Nylon. Nylon had been invented and commercially sold back in 1940, and these bacteria had been discovered by 1985. Keep in mind I was a kid in the 90s and "popular science" typically lags behind about a decade after scientific breakthroughs like that occur, so talking early to mid 90s news of this bacteria was making the rounds. It was amazing that it took bacteria only 40 years to evolve the ability to eat this new man-made material, this radically changed the thinking on how much time evolution required before major mutations could happen, completely changed timelines, went a long way towards explaining some questionable timelines like the pre-Cambrian explosion, etc. I remember specifically there being a lot of push back about evolution being taught in schools (grew up in the south) and about how this recent discovery was absolute proof of evolution, etc etc.


Fast forward to a few years ago. Well, remember popular science is typically 10 years behind the curve so I just learned about it a few years ago but it happened back in 2007. Turns out, as our understanding of DNA improved and we started mapping out genomes and such, we fully mapped the genome of these Nylon eating bacteria and made a startling discovery. Turns out the genetic code and proteins required to digest Nylon already existed in those bacteria, in fact nearly all bacteria share a similar DNA sequence that, with minor modification/simple mutation would allow them to digest Nylon.

Turns out, bacteria has seen Nylon before. At some point along the eons of genetic memory bacteria has been exposed to nylon long ago, evolved the ability to digest it, and then over time "lost" that ability due to no longer requiring it/being exposed to the material. This is why it took bacteria only 40 years to regain the ability.

Remember Nylon is not naturally occurring, it is 100% man-made. At some point in the 300k+ year history of anatomically modern man a civilization arose that invented Nylon. they are lost to history. civilizations have risen and been wiped out, probably happened 10-20 times due to all sorts of cataclysmic events throughout history. All the rocks and carvings are just evidence of the latest lost civilization from only 12k years ago. There were many more before it. Even rocks erode. 300k+ years of Einstein's and Shakespeare's and Plato's and Newton's. They invented Nylon, and the proof of it is embedded in the Genetic code of the bacteria that eats it. We did not spend 288k years as ooga booga hunter/gatherers before figuring out how to plant crops. We rediscovered it over and over again or it was passed down to us by survivors of the previous civilization that had that knowledge.

If we all get wiped out in WW3 and beyond a few stragglers the only people who survive are the uncontacted tribes throughout the amazon, africa, sentinel island, etc what will their oral tradition and myths about us say? After a few thousand years of that oral history, when society starts over again, how will they describe the mushroom clouds of nuclear war that wiped out us, the before people? Will they describe us as Gods the way the bible and other religious texts describe our predecessors?
Where are you getting all this bacteria already knew how to digest nylon and couldn't possibly pick up that ability in 40 years? I think you are misunderstanding what they are saying about the DNA.

Also, 40 years seems like a long time for a bacteria. If a bacteria is growing, it can divide fairly often. If they have enough food/energy most can reproduce every 20 minutes, but just to be on the cautious side, lets say that it will run into other limiting factors. So if we pad that number out, and instead say each bacteria "generation" lasts 12 hours that would mean in 40 years, there are 29,120 generations of bacteria that have lived.

If we were to then convert that into a human timeline using a 20 year generation (the low side of 20-30 years) then that 40 years for bacteria is equal to 582,400 years for humans and that number only gets bigger the closer you move to the 20 minute self divide mark.
 

Siddar

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i see you are being purposefully vague. its ok. i knew you were doing that to begin with so you could make your blanket dismissal of this entire thread. Chris does this often with his ancient aliens and ley lines schtick. i pretend i dont see it, but its there. its much easier to dismiss an entire group without actually giving any attention to their claims.
I don't think I was being vague, my criticism was mainly on the frauds leading this show. That they're preaching contradictory views on subjects without making any effort to correct past views that they have now abandoned. That they're preaching a modern-day academic conspiracy is the reason why they're views arn't widely accepted. That the core beliefs of those who follow their movement are at heart incompatible with each other and the only thing holding them together is they have built a greater enemy in academia. That their method of scientific discovery is to simply make shit up and provide no evidence for what they claim.
 
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