- 34,251
- 134,521
Ancient Civilizations
- Thread starter Kiroy
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,998
- 214,284
The wreck was found a year ago at a depth of almost two kilometers (1.2 miles), 90 kilometers (55 miles) off the Israeli coast, in the middle of the sea – which was startling in and of itself. Either it was very lost or the ancients had navigational skills we weren't aware of, the IAA team says.
While the seafloors of the world are littered with shipwrecks, this is the earliest found in the deep sea from that time. In fact, until now we hadn't been confident the ancients around the Mediterranean intentionally crossed the sea at all, as opposed to sailing along the coasts.
Last edited:
- 5
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 7,455
- 14,683
The navigational skills to get lost and die sound like the deepest of mysteries that only modern man should be capable of accomplishing.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,998
- 214,284
the "very lost" line was a joke. you can not get lost following the coastline. either you are following the coastline or you are sailing in the seas. you dont get 55 miles off the coast by accident.
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 7,455
- 14,683
Storms don't happen in the Mediterranean, ehh? Get caught, get fucked, then sail the wrong way.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,998
- 214,284
how do you get caught in a storm following a coastline?. storm comes, you make land and ride out the storm. storm comes, you keep following the coast. it doesnt matter, you cant get lost. you would get lost if you werent following the coast line and were going somewhere out to sea. maybe they tried something new and werent up to it.
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 7,455
- 14,683
It's not like they are a few minutes off the beach waving at all the naked girls down on the Jersey shore. You can see land from miles away. Storms can form over land and winds/currents can push you out to sea. The older the ship technology the harder it is to sail "into" the wind, that's assuming they had a fully functioning sail. If they can't make land, then they are at the mercy of the weather/currents.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,998
- 214,284
from the article
"
All the wrecks found so far in the Mediterranean Sea have been in shallow water, he adds.
One of the earliest actual shipwrecks was found off the uninhabited island of Dokos, Greece. It may be as old as 4700 years, but is more likely 4200 years old based on the style of the heaps of Early Helladic pots and fragments found on board. Two were found off Turkey's coast: the Uluburun wreck and the Cape Gelidonya boat. That one foundered in water so shallow it crashed onto the rocks. The Uluburun, Gelidonya and Dokos wrecks could be investigated by ordinary divers, without need for high-tech submersibles.
What are we to make of all this? Evidently, the fact that discoveries of Bronze Age wrecks by coasts just means that is where we found them, not that they didn't brave the deep. The discovery of this merchant vessel, 14 to 16 meters in length, with a crew of probably four to six people, indicates deep-sea sailing ability in antiquity."
Ancient cargo recovered from oldest shipwreck ever found in Mediterranean Sea, Israeli archaeologists say
An official with the energy company that made the discovery says it "changes our entire understanding of ancient mariner abilities."
www.cbsnews.com
Describing it as a "truly sensational find," Bahartan said the only other two shipwrecks found with cargo in the Mediterranean were dated to the late Bronze Age — hundreds of years after the one containing the amphorae likely sank, and much further north near Turkey's coast.
Bahartan said that, based on the locations and depths of the previously discovered wrecks, "the academic assumption until now was that trade in that time was executed by safely flitting from port to port, hugging the coastline within eye contact."
"The discovery of this boat now changes our entire understanding of ancient mariner abilities," she said.
Last edited:
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 7,455
- 14,683
That reads like pure speculation with no proof of how it got there, only that the crew didn't ditch the cargo. Again, purposely being 55 miles off shore is far from the only speculative guess one could make and I have no clue if it that's a journalist's take on it (which I would take with a grain of salt), or an educated guess from someone with actual experience in underwater archaeology.
Furthermore, ships got lost at sea fairly regularly all the way up to the modern age (with a probable steady decline through the ages). So it's not like getting pushed out to sea for a plethora of reason is something far fetched.
- 34,251
- 134,521
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,781
- 109,213
This is pretty cool. Turn of the 20th century an Egyptologist from Italy went in here. This location is not at Giza and he excavated it up until the breakout of WW1. It was later used to shoot a few scenes in the film the Land of the Pharaoh in 1955 but eventually had the site put in the perimeter of an Egyptian military base and has been closed to the public ever since.
Supposedly the Egyptian military used it as a landfill so its covered in trash now. But the original excavation was documented heavily. At the bottom of this steep ramp is a pavement of massive interlocking pieces of pink granite. The Italian dug through it and found a molded granite tub that was carefully sealed with clay and other stuff before being secured by another pink slab of granite. A few photos of this tub and area exist floating around I just can't find it at the moment.
Anyway, the Italian guy was all why the fuck would they go through all the trouble to secure this granite tub that is smooth and polished. When he finally cracked it open all that was left in it was a black residue. Modern archaeology presumes that it was the unfinished base of another pyramid that just never got built. But the Italian documented the interlocking granite and space here and thought that something must be under it or had no other explanation because the other sites do not have granite pavement floors such as this one does. Or smooth polished tubs.
Additionally the Pyramids are not carved out of bedrock like this is. But the Sphinx was.
Supposedly the Egyptian military used it as a landfill so its covered in trash now. But the original excavation was documented heavily. At the bottom of this steep ramp is a pavement of massive interlocking pieces of pink granite. The Italian dug through it and found a molded granite tub that was carefully sealed with clay and other stuff before being secured by another pink slab of granite. A few photos of this tub and area exist floating around I just can't find it at the moment.
Anyway, the Italian guy was all why the fuck would they go through all the trouble to secure this granite tub that is smooth and polished. When he finally cracked it open all that was left in it was a black residue. Modern archaeology presumes that it was the unfinished base of another pyramid that just never got built. But the Italian documented the interlocking granite and space here and thought that something must be under it or had no other explanation because the other sites do not have granite pavement floors such as this one does. Or smooth polished tubs.
Additionally the Pyramids are not carved out of bedrock like this is. But the Sphinx was.
Last edited:
- 4
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,781
- 109,213
Another interesting bit is that Strabo visited Giza in the early millennium after the founding of the Roman Empire.
He recorded that at that time the Great Pyramid had a door that could open and close. He also documented the Labyrinth (now gone) and the Oseiron that had a much lower level of water than it does currently. Despite being fed from a subterranean aquifer.
Also interesting is that in Strabos time, at minimum 2500 years after the creation of the pyramids, Oseiron, and other monuments, the locals had no idea who built any of it. The original creation of the Pyramids was not passed down into the later Ptolmeic rulers of Egypt. They legitimately had no idea where any of it came from. Just ruins of a bygone age laying in the sand.
He recorded that at that time the Great Pyramid had a door that could open and close. He also documented the Labyrinth (now gone) and the Oseiron that had a much lower level of water than it does currently. Despite being fed from a subterranean aquifer.
Also interesting is that in Strabos time, at minimum 2500 years after the creation of the pyramids, Oseiron, and other monuments, the locals had no idea who built any of it. The original creation of the Pyramids was not passed down into the later Ptolmeic rulers of Egypt. They legitimately had no idea where any of it came from. Just ruins of a bygone age laying in the sand.
- 3
Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
- 10,087
- 10,417
That shit is super interesting. It seems so willfully ignorant or wrong(?) that the site is encompassed within a military base, or is a trash heap, now. Kind of almost makes you want to believe that there is something more to it.
Theres a bunch of shit around the world like that - most popular being the depths of the Vatican, and the majority of all of its archives. Why keep any of it hidden? What is the point in that? What about that mosque? temple? church? W/e the fuck it is thats in .. I want to say Jerusalem? That no one can go into and only one guy can go in there. Then theres some ancient temple in bangladesh area that is also just like that, only one person can go in and no one else besides these people is allowed to go into them and all the shit thats hidden in their basements/catacombs.
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,781
- 109,213
Interesting bit about the Vatican archives. They exist in the mainstream culture as hidden but the original word for them was the Latin "secretorum" which we translate to secret or hidden. In reality the Latin form of this is more like "private" as we would consider it. The private records of the church they have collected over the course of 2000 years. While they certainly have plenty of things in there that have a broader historical implication the vast majority of it is almost certainly versions of scripture and commentaries. Commentaries on commentaries written by Catholic priests and monks century over century.
We can make this determination from other archives held by smaller Orthodox churches that are obviously interested in the same things but don't have the centuries of authority and means to have such a vast archive of their own.
The process to get into the Vatican Archives for members of the church is nuts though. The entire place isn't organized either. Like they at no point went in and said lets use the dewey decimal system to catalog all of this.
Last edited:
- 1
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 42,781
- 109,213
I really like this channel. The guy is well spoken and looks at only material evidence for what is in the pyramids. Which of course leads to mundane, but very interesting, conclusions.
He argues that the Great Pyramid was intended to not just be a tomb that nobody ever visited but a sort of pilgrimage site or site of worship for the deified Pharaoh. Unlike Mastabas or the Step Pyramid where the portcullis stones were very clearly never meant to be moved once put in place. Going into how the triple gated portcullis of the Great Pyramid could be re opened if a specific configuration was achieved.
He thinks the Queen's chamber was like a chapel meant to show your favor to the Pharaoh above. But he does seem to ignore that the Grand Gallery never had stairs or anything in it. It was a steeply angled shaft that only became really accessible in modern times. It also doesn't explain why the Queen's Chamber was never polished up, nor does it explain why the Pyramids don't have any interior hieroglyphics or inscriptions like the other sites.
Guy also mentioned this book which looks very fascinating.
He argues that the Great Pyramid was intended to not just be a tomb that nobody ever visited but a sort of pilgrimage site or site of worship for the deified Pharaoh. Unlike Mastabas or the Step Pyramid where the portcullis stones were very clearly never meant to be moved once put in place. Going into how the triple gated portcullis of the Great Pyramid could be re opened if a specific configuration was achieved.
He thinks the Queen's chamber was like a chapel meant to show your favor to the Pharaoh above. But he does seem to ignore that the Grand Gallery never had stairs or anything in it. It was a steeply angled shaft that only became really accessible in modern times. It also doesn't explain why the Queen's Chamber was never polished up, nor does it explain why the Pyramids don't have any interior hieroglyphics or inscriptions like the other sites.
Guy also mentioned this book which looks very fascinating.
Amazon.com
www.amazon.com
- 1
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,998
- 214,284
the pyramids are so old and that area has been looted and stripped for so many thousands of years that there isnt much you can gather from them anymore. they are big and strategically placed. some weird thing going on with its location and the annual rainfall of the region back then. i dont think we will ever find out the purpose of them even if we figure out how they moved 50 ton blocks into place every 30 seconds for 30 years.