Ashes of Creation

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
<Gold Donor>
43,199
110,720
Shadowbane and DAOC were all cool for a while. But you don't really have staying power when people don't all gravitate to the factions evenly. And when you don't do shit about big guilds roflstomping smaller ones. Or let people siege you across different timezones.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,213
13,759
They need to region lock China from the start on this also. Even if sieges are locked to NA prime time, RMT PK squads are a disease in these types of games and ruin everything
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
uniqueuser

uniqueuser

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
1,806
6,104
Neranja said:
Think about it: Isn't the ultimate form of P2W to bankroll your own game? Of course without P2W on the front, because P2W is bad! No one likes P2W!
But you can set up the rules in your favor, and your opposition can neither P2W, nor can they use RMT or they'll get banned. You even have all the transaction logs in the backend available to find something they are guilty of!

I think that would be the ultimate troll MMO.
Click to expand...
Any dev who'd actually want to play their own game is in the wrong line of work.
 
  • 1Seriously?
Reactions: 1 user
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
8,388
10,452
Valderen said:
I'm not sure the PVE crowd will not be in for that for the long term.
Click to expand...
That sounds like an euphemism to me.

The PVE crowd will simply say "fuck nodes, where my dungeon" "what do you mean, I need a tier four node for a dungeon? Okay, where did I put my BNet password..."
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,213
13,759
PVE will stick with it until they lose their progress or get perma murdered by griefers.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Kriptini

Kriptini

Vyemm Raider
3,683
3,574
Neranja said:
Wasn't it obvious from the start that this is somewhat the plan? The creative director of AoC is Sorcerer, the guild leader of The White Order. I'd be surprised if there aren't mechanics so a big and organized guild can steamroll their smaller opponents in both PvE and PvP.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. I'm willing to believe that he can be a different kind of dev than he is a player, but I also recognize that he 100% has biases about who "should" be on top in games.

The funniest thing is that his zerg guild wasn't even the largest in ArcheAge, that title goes to Oran'Thul (although ironically, OT was worse at PvP).
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,213
13,759
It’s been forever, but didn’t TWO get ganged on by East, pirates, and rival West guilds...then after they lost their castle, TWO poofed and he quit the game?

The node system sounds like that shit will happen all over again, except now pirates can drop gear(until they figure out a way to game the system).
 
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
14,786
14,744
Ukerric said:
That sounds like an euphemism to me.

The PVE crowd will simply say "fuck nodes, where my dungeon" "what do you mean, I need a tier four node for a dungeon? Okay, where did I put my BNet password..."
Click to expand...

true the on-demand fun of WoW is going to be a strong competitor to Ashes.

Not so much that people will play WoW consistently, but that Ashes could remind them of the instantaneous fun activities WoW offers and they may play 1 or 2 days of WoW-- subsequently never returning to Ashes.

The dopamine offering is hard to compete with.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,659
4,282
uniqueuser said:
Any dev who'd actually want to play their own game is in the wrong line of work.
Click to expand...
History is somewhat 50:50 on this: On one hand you have Aradune strutting around like a peacock with his flaming sword (claiming it is obtainable), on the other hand you have the original WoW dev team, which were EQ veterans who thought they could do a better quest based MMO than EverQuest. Turns out you can, and the finger on the monkey's paw curled.

The current generation of "player turned MMO dev" is pretty bad though, with examples like Curt Schilling and Ion Hazzikostas. I think the trick is to have firm leadership that was a game designer first before starting to play MMOs.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
14,786
14,744
Neranja said:
History is somewhat 50:50 on this: On one hand you have Aradune strutting around like a peacock with his flaming sword (claiming it is obtainable), on the other hand you have the original WoW dev team, which were EQ veterans who thought they could do a better quest based MMO than EverQuest. Turns out you can, and the finger on the monkey's paw curled.

The current generation of "player turned MMO dev" is pretty bad though, with examples like Curt Schilling and Ion Hazzikostas. I think the trick is to have firm leadership that was a game designer first before starting to play MMOs.
Click to expand...


What's the history of League of Legends lead design. Were they Warcraft DOTA players or did they come from other games without having MOBA experience?

I'm talking about guys like Morello.
 
Uriel

Uriel

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,839
2,291
Both Dota 2 and LoL were created by designers of the original dota allstars mod for wc3 (the very first dota was by Eul who I don't think works on any games now).
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Fucker

Fucker

Log Wizard
13,097
30,100
Valderen said:
This is kind of my concern, essentially it looks like PVE players will be the one to advance the Nodes only for PVP players to destroy them. I'm not sure the PVE crowd will not be in for that for the long term.

It still looks pretty interesting though, and will give it a try when it comes out if it reviews are good.
Click to expand...

It sounds like they are setting themselves up for failure. IMO, MMO's need to be 100% pvp or 100% pve. I don't think I've ever seen an MMO do both well.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users
Neranja

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,659
4,282
jayrebb said:
true the on-demand fun
Click to expand...
But games like MOBAs and TCGs have that also. Why invest time in an MMO which are known to require player interdependence and foster social interactions when all you do is dungeon finder/LFR? Other players may as well be bots at this point, which would alleviate the tank problem.

jayrebb said:
What's the history of League of Legends lead design.
Click to expand...
That is a rabbit hole, which gets weirder the deeper you go in. Short version: Most of it came from Warcraft III and the StarCraft map "Aeon of Strife". Original StarCraft map was made by Gunner_4_ever/David Donnelly.

Eul/Kyle Sommer made the Warcraft III map "Defense of the Ancients" that was inspired by AoS, didn't update it for Frozen Throne because he worked on a followup called "Dota2: Thirst for Gamma." So spinoffs like Guinsoo's "DotA-Allstars" got popular. Guinsoo wanted to play WoW, so he gave lead over to Neichus, who recruited IceFrog to help with coding and took over after Neichus basically ragequit.

Guinsoo went off to LoL, and IceFrog went to Valve. I think the "we are the legitimate successor" shitshow was won by Valve after Eul (who came up with the original "DotA" name) gave Valve permission to use the "Defense of the Ancients" name/trademark, and supported them in court. The other legal case Blizzard vs. Valve was also won by Valve.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Uriel

Uriel

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,839
2,291
I'm pretty sure this is a primary PvP game, with PvE supporting the PvP. That can work fine. Really anything can work fine, if the devs are humble and listen to players.
 
  • 1Barf
Reactions: 1 user
Araxen

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
10,545
7,971
TJT said:
Shadowbane and DAOC were all cool for a while. But you don't really have staying power when people don't all gravitate to the factions evenly. And when you don't do shit about big guilds roflstomping smaller ones. Or let people siege you across different timezones.
Click to expand...

DAOC had three factions, and usually the two out-numbered factions teamed up. It worked pretty well.

It's when they tried to go a hard PVE route to gear for PVP that they ruined the game. Up until ToA you could gear for PVP by just buying player made gear. It was a great system, then ToA fucked it all up.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users
Mist

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,512
24,005
DAOC was fucking great for the first 3 years and then shit afterwards.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
14,786
14,744
Araxen said:
DAOC had three factions, and usually the two out-numbered factions teamed up. It worked pretty well.

It's when they tried to go a hard PVE route to gear for PVP that they ruined the game. Up until ToA you could gear for PVP by just buying player made gear. It was a great system, then ToA fucked it all up.
Click to expand...

it didn't age well. the emulator was fucking aids.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
14,786
14,744


Some off the top

- Ashes just crossed the 3 year full-production mark. It's been in full scale production for 3 years.

- They just started another hiring phase as of this summer, hiring for 24 positions total

- Professions are a big fucking deal

- Recipes use are limited (expended/disposed/locked out after certain use)

- Profession gear is raiding gear, same value and stats

- Bosses drop profession materials as well as completed gear

- Desire for Lineage II guild-driven politics, strongly opposed to Blue + Red locked factions. Dislikes WoW.

- Bosses related to story are instanced

- 80% of bosses are open-world non-instanced

- Siege scroll will be between 3 PM and 7 PM for EST servers

- Difficulty is tiered, reward depends on performance in dungeon

- Dungeon AI and reward change depending on performance in each tier of the dungeon

- Drop table is influenced by performance by tier in dungeon. Best drop table means best performance

- Raid sizes are confirmed 8, 16, and 40.

- No scaled dungeons scaling to your level. Hates scaling.

- Node progress/mining reveals points of interest/dungeons.

- No forced hostility. PvP opt-in is typically controlled by guild leader.

- Enemies can't prevent or stop all progression of other players

- Safeguards are in place against extreme griefing

- Borrows heavily from Lineage II intentionally. Big fan of Lineage II.

- Consensual PvP has incentives

- Fast travel is limited

- Castles, Node, Caravan, guild wars, node wars are self-contained PvP ruleset. Open world PvP permissions are a separate system.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users
You must log in or register to reply here.