Ashes of Creation

Its odd that too this day Dark Ages of Camelot is still one of the best PvP oriented games to have ever come out. It too was not perfect but it handled many situations to the best that could be done. Its still the only PvP I have truly enjoyed.

Mahes said:

Its odd that too this day Dark Ages of Camelot is still one of the best PvP oriented games to have ever come out. It too was not perfect but it handled many situations to the best that could be done. Its still the only PvP I have truly enjoyed.

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People could play DAoC solely for its PVE elements. I always thought people missed out on RvRvR and especially from dungeons like Darkness Falls (iirc) - but they could do it and that was fantastic. If you watch an Aion/Archeage etc. player's gameplay video, you're almost sure to see them killing some dinky NPC's and then this guy fly in like a Bomber Plane, kill them in two hits and disappear off into the wind. How anyone thinks that shit is fun is beyond me and if thats the game play Shariff is going for, then Im definitely not in the "niche" that'll play it.

However, if they DO do a carebear server with a system similar to WoW's "War Mode" then I'll be down for that. Town Nodes are not only vulnerable to PVP, but are vulnerable to the environment in their area too. I dont recall exactly how it worked, but like a node that got lvl 4 may spawn a Dragon Lair in the far off reaches of the territory and will constantly spawn raiding parties until its handled.

Games pretty, but the alpha combat footage I saw looked like shit. So I hope for the games sake that this "combat revamp" they keep talking about changes my opinion after I see it.

mkopec said:

I mean you could go back to the OG PVP based MMORPG like Shadowbane back in the day. One guild basically ended up being on top all the players wanted to join that guild because no one wants to be a fucking loser, or in the case of broken ass Shadowbane they simply quit because of the vast amounts of resources it took to get a city up and running only to be destroyed by the local chad PVP guild in less than a hour.

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Shadowbane is also a perfect example as well and what I consider to be the textbook example of how not to make a PvP game. AoC even has the Shadowbane like mechanic to being able to declare on low level cities, which all but ensures that whoever hits hard and hit first basically wins the game forever

Shadowbane had the excuse of coming out in what 2002? Built by devs who hated trammel and didn’t realize the ship had sailed on people who would put up with that kind of insane bullshit.

ironically EVE came out at around the same time and is the only good long term template for a pvp mmo anyone has ever made but for some reason that defies all logic we keep getting the same failed clones of either shadowbane or daoc and no one has even tried to copy the only successful game.

EVE had the advantage of basically being Capitalism: The MMO to buffer the PVP aspect, which helped attract a different type of PVPer (it basically attracted the Hedge Fund Manager instead of the backalley brawlers) . If they did not have as complex a market and trade system and it was just "pvp in space", it would have died out long ago.

Cybsled said:

EVE had the advantage of basically being Capitalism: The MMO to buffer the PVP aspect, which helped attract a different type of PVPer (it basically attracted the Hedge Fund Manager instead of the backalley brawlers) . If they did not have as complex a market and trade system and it was just "pvp in space", it would have died out long ago

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The big pvp guilds did play it. Some for a long time. These are the same toxic people you would recognize from daoc and shadowbane and darkfall. The mechanics of eve just didn’t allow the sort of advantage to pkers that those other games did so it survived.

the two core elements were a large pve space that let you play and progress with pvp and a territory control system that actually let you do a decent job of having your pvp squads protect your pve players.

Kriptini said:

Y'all need to remember this really important point that Neranja implied but some of you need to read explicitly: Sharif is building a game for himself not for you. His guild got owned in ArcheAge because in spite of his rampant RMT and huge zerg, they were trash. He wants to build a game where he can feed his power fantasy just from having the biggest numbers, which includes choking out the economy for everyone else because he and his peeps can't press buttons to save their lives.

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This is basically my worry. I am sure I will try it, when/if it makes it, but I have a lot of reservations the more I hear. Thankfully not invested in it at all, which I am sure will put me at a disadvantage when I do try it.

Will be more interesting to see if he and the company are quite happy spending all the time and money on what is simply a niche game, that will most likely have the population of one(given the direction its headed). Will he be happy just playing the multimillion dollar game he built for himself , even if its one server with just one guild basically dominating it, after a few months?

Creslin said:

The big pvp guilds did play it. Some for a long time. These are the same toxic people you would recognize from daoc and shadowbane and darkfall. The mechanics of eve just didn’t allow the sort of advantage to pkers that those other games did so it survived.

the two core elements were a large pve space that let you play and progress with pvp and a territory control system that actually let you do a decent job of having your pvp squads protect your pve players.

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EVE's system is great. Plenty of things for PVErs to do while safe. Even some risky PVE. They can ignore pvp, but they can also just be a tackling frigate(at least when I played) or a debuffer. Also could ignore the huge system fights and still be into pvp. Roles that were not all about ship power and damage. Also there was basically a built in time sink with skills. You are not hoping in, paying $2k and out destroying people that week(unless you bought a whole account maybe). These days finding a FFA pvp game without rampant p2w? Almost impossible. More so if it has no box price and no sub.

I think the sci-fi nature of the game and the PoV you play from(always in a ship and thats what you see) helps quite a lot also. Nothing comes close. Everthing before and after has basically been a high fantasy, 3rd person PoV, from your character's center.

Creslin said:

Shadowbane had the excuse of coming out in what 2002? Built by devs who hated trammel and didn’t realize the ship had sailed on people who would put up with that kind of insane bullshit.

ironically EVE came out at around the same time and is the only good long term template for a pvp mmo anyone has ever made but for some reason that defies all logic we keep getting the same failed clones of either shadowbane or daoc and no one has even tried to copy the only successful game.

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I still maintain that a fantasy clone of EVE would do well.

Sudo said:

I still maintain that a fantasy clone of EVE would do well.

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ArcheAge was really good until the devs nosedived their own game so yes, you're right.

Sudo said:

I still maintain that a fantasy clone of EVE would do well.

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It basically already exists in Albion, complete with "high sec, low sec, zero sec" type zones, completely player driven economy, etc.

Kirun said:

It basically already exists in Albion, complete with "high sec, low sec, zero sec" type zones, completely player driven economy, etc.

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The problem with Albion is it's lack of depth. :/ At least the last time I played it.

This is live at the moment. Seems to be just about weather at the moment, but the game is really starting to look phenomenal.

I hope alpha 2 has a better feel than A1 in it's environment. I mean it looks like it, but we'll see.

This looks great. Everyone is waiting for when they start actually showing game mechanics such as advanced classes, crafting and the PvP system. There is no doubt that the game really looks great.

Wish an EQ variant of this could have been made.

Xerge said:

I hope alpha 2 has a better feel than A1 in it's environment. I mean it looks like it, but we'll see.

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Character movement looks SO much better than A1. But like Mahes just said, gotta see more than just the graphics.

So much of the stuff they've shown has just moved away from the PVP Archeage play style, but yet its the core to what theyre showing. Regardless, going to play the game when it releases in 2050 just to show support for a western MMO.

There is a small chance this could be really good

Mahes said:

This looks great. Everyone is waiting for when they start actually showing game mechanics such as advanced classes, crafting and the PvP system. There is no doubt that the game really looks great.

Wish an EQ variant of this could have been made.

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Yeah and they won't be showing this for a while. Last time I asked they're still world building, fleshing out systems, and waiting on systems to be done basically. They're at this weird stage where they need stuff to be done before they can really start building on top of the world theyve created.

Bubbles said:

High fidelity mean nothing if the content is shit. See New World

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There was nothing special about this intro dungeon I tested. Is there suppose to be? i dont know. We're all seasoned MMO players so it's pretty stale to begin with redoing newbie shit. More of the same, kill this, go here, follow the npc. This is the same spot Asmongold raved about on stream and im like bruh...