Avengers: Endgame (2019)

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,062
99,466
j00t said:
okay. explain to me how cap gets back to the "primary" universe without introducing something that the movie didn't already introduce
Click to expand...
Exactly the same way every other person on missions to get stones did. The temporal compass that Tony developed. He stayed in his alternate time line that was created by him staying, the main time line carried on as if he didn't stay, which effectively split in to two timelines by him staying. He ported back at some point to hand off the shield from that time line to Falcon because it was busted after the encounter with Thanos in the primary time line.

The whole causality loop remains in play. You can't change the present by changing the past. They just did what they could by not creating so many alternate timelines that alternate versions are seeking out your time line to fuck things up.

Reminds me of the TNG episode where time lines converge and scruffy Riker gets his ship blown up.
 
Last edited:
j00t

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,380
7,476
there's a weird agency in the movie where it feels like stark HAS to solve all these problems immediately, but honestly, he doesn't. they show him solve time travel while he's washing dishes... him creating an infinity gauntlet is like a throwaway line. there was no immediacy to solving these issues and it could have been done over an extended period of time. show a montage of stark being up all night obsessing with potts looking at the clock at 3am while she's in bed alone. show him running tests that take a while to run. when stark dies pepper says "now you can rest" and it's a heavy line based on what we've seen from stark over the course of the MCU, but it doesn't seem like he's really been all that obsessive during the last 5 years.

and honestly, there's no mention of any time progressing OR standing still so it's fairly safe to assume that setting everything up actually took a significant amount of time. they just didn't mention it because it REALLY doesn't matter. stark solves time travel and is an engineer/blacksmith on par with the dwarves of nidavillir. again, technology in the MCU is functionally magic.
 
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,062
99,466
wat said:
Clearly Cap stayed in in the alternate timeline for 70 years, then build a new time machine for himself, jumped back to the original timeline, drove out to the forest to pass on the torch to Falcon and to ignore Bucky. That seems reasonable right?

What I want to know is how the fuck they can go on and on about how it would be impossible to bring a dead character back because of how they died, but then they bring back a character that died the exact same way lol.

They also kind of fucked with the plot arc of Thor and turned Thanos from a guy who thought he had to do a terrible thing for the good of everyone to a guy that was like fuck it i'll just kill everyone. Also his original plan sucked since the universe would just repopulate in in a few hundred years if he couldn't keep snappin.

The more I think about the movie the less I like it. Also are we just not using spoiler tags anymore?
Click to expand...
Bring a dead character back? Who? Gamora? She existed because she was from a time line from before the snap.

Not debating his (Thanos') original idea sucked (because it is fundamentally flawed on so many levels, and I argue why they didn't include Death to define his actions, but whatever). Which is why his 2014 version was like "I fucked up, I'm gonna do it different"...

*Edit: Cap didn't need a time travel machine. Could have just used the compass. Or maybe he used what was available in the timeline he created. Maybe that timeline worked out better. Who fucking knows.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
spronk

spronk

FPS noob
23,352
27,210
tc0fxmmu1uu21.jpg
 
j00t

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,380
7,476
a c i d.f l y said:
Exactly the same way every other person on missions to get stones did. The temporal compass that Tony developed. He stayed in his alternate time line that was created by him staying, the main time line carried on as if he didn't stay, which effectively split in to two timelines by him staying. He ported back at some point to hand off the shield from that time line to Falcon because it was busted after the encounter with Thanks in the primary time line.

The whole causality loop remains in play. You can't change the present by changing the past. The just did what they could by not creating so many alternate timelines that alternate versions are seeking out your time line to fuck things up.

Reminds me of the TNG episode where time lines converge and scruffy Riker gets his ship blown up.
Click to expand...

so. HOW did cap get back to the primary timeline WITHOUT being on the landing pad?

i'll skip your answer because i already know where it's going. the movie states that you rejoin the proper timeline back through the doorway you left it. like ant-man coming back in the van. even though the van moved, that was his link. the time heist crew all returned to the same spot, even though they took different amounts of time (including evil-nebula and war machine. they were on the same mission but returned at different times, but still showed up with the rest of everyone at the same time) though, rhodey DOES have the line about "syncing up with the others" so it's possible that you can choose to show up WHENEVER. however, the WHERE never changed. always on the landing pad.

the pad that hulk used to send cap back was a portable device. it's fair to say they packed it up and unloaded it for the nice scenery, i guess because it only serves to have cap sitting on a bench 30 feet away. so if cap used to temporal compass to return back his original timeline, he STILL would have shown up on the landing pad, not the bench. okay fine, he used the temporal compass to show up at a DIFFERENT time in order to have a nice entrance. he STILL WOULD HAVE SHOWN UP on the landing pad, wherever it was. probably in stark's/banner's lab. you know, when they were building the thing. right? how wouldn't they notice?

okay fine, cap, even as an old man, is still probably pretty lithe and nimble and could sneak out without anyone noticing. but i GUARANTEE you that someone, somewhere would notice the power surge and be like, wtf? but since NONE of that was actually shown or even hinted at, we are just filling in the blanks for a plothole so that it makes sense.

here's how it makes sense. the writers were told to have cap hand off the shield to falcon, just like they were told to have a female empowerment scene and so they just did it without caring about how consistent it is.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
so here's my big question, who is the leader of The Avengers now? who is the brains and who is the muscle? or is the answer to those 3 questions the same person?
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
3,577
a c i d.f l y said:
It created a different time line. He returned the stones to their timelines, but him staying created a new one. It didn't affect the original time line. You can't change your time line. For like the 50th time mentioned. They just created additional time lines where Loki gets the tesseract back, and so many others. Even the separate time-line where Captain America got to spend his life with Carter. He could even monumentally change their time line by being involved from 1970+, but it wouldn't change the primary time line. The only reason he shows up is because he ported back to his original time line to give his send-off and provide Falcon with a shield that didn't encounter Thanos. Which makes me wonder what the fuck happened on that time line.

It's a completely different way of approaching time travel, but it, like any method, can be hard to grasp. That said, it's confusing that Tony was concerned about affecting the outcome of his child existing, though it may have been concern for returning to a reality/time line where she doesn't exist, which doesn't specifically jive with the rules of said time travel, which he should fully understand. But whatevs, wishy washy wibbly wobbly timey wimey shit.
Click to expand...

Actually I believe the correct answer is that Thanos came to the current timeline AFTER those events, so by returning the stones to the original timeline/places, there still is a Thanos there.

And I already know you can't change your timeline, that wasn't what I was saying at all.
The point was that if the alternate timeline was Thanoless, then there wasn't really a need to have the stones back there.
 
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,062
99,466
You're making up a requirement, which, I agree, the movie made prevalent, but doesn't dictate the solution. His own timeline (the one he created by staying) would have figured things out on their own, allowing him to travel back to whenever, wherever, without restrictions on the primary timeline or needing to show back up on the platform he time traveled from.
 
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,062
99,466
Ravishing said:
Actually I believe the correct answer is that Thanos came to the current timeline AFTER those events, so by returning the stones to the original timeline/places, there still is a Thanos there.

And I already know you can't change your timeline, that wasn't what I was saying at all.
The point was that if the alternate timeline was Thanoless, then there wasn't really a need to have the stones back there.
Click to expand...
Returning the stones ensured parity in the primary timeline. Not the alternates that were created by the stones being removed.
 
Harshaw

Harshaw

Throbbing Member
24,156
121,623
Chukzombi said:
so here's my big question, who is the leader of The Avengers now? who is the brains and who is the muscle? or is the answer to those 3 questions the same person?
Click to expand...

We won't know til Phase 4 gets rolling. I have a feeling it's gonna be at least 3-4 years before we get another Avengers movie. At this point there has been no plot reason for Captain Marvel to take over. However I think the Avengers go more cosmic in Phase 4. Especially with the Eternals coming out.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
Harshaw said:
We won't know til Phase 4 gets rolling. I have a feeling it's gonna be at least 3-4 years before we get another Avengers movie. At this point there has been no plot reason for Captain Marvel to take over. However I think the Avengers go more cosmic in Phase 4. Especially with the Eternals coming out.
Click to expand...
so next movie is Spidey2 then BW origin and then? lady Iron Man, Lady Hulk, Valkyrie, Lesbian Thor?
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
3,577
a c i d.f l y said:
Returning the stones ensured parity in the primary timeline. Not the alternates that were created by the stones being removed.
Click to expand...
No fucking shit sherlock. So like my original point. Parity is broken if somehow Thanos is no longer present in that timeline.
 
Nester

Nester

Vyemm Raider
4,978
3,183
j00t said:
so. HOW did cap get back to the primary timeline WITHOUT being on the landing pad?

i'll skip your answer because i already know where it's going. the movie states that you rejoin the proper timeline back through the doorway you left it. like ant-man coming back in the van. even though the van moved, that was his link. the time heist crew all returned to the same spot, even though they took different amounts of time (including evil-nebula and war machine. they were on the same mission but returned at different times, but still showed up with the rest of everyone at the same time) though, rhodey DOES have the line about "syncing up with the others" so it's possible that you can choose to show up WHENEVER. however, the WHERE never changed. always on the landing pad.

the pad that hulk used to send cap back was a portable device. it's fair to say they packed it up and unloaded it for the nice scenery, i guess because it only serves to have cap sitting on a bench 30 feet away. so if cap used to temporal compass to return back his original timeline, he STILL would have shown up on the landing pad, not the bench. okay fine, he used the temporal compass to show up at a DIFFERENT time in order to have a nice entrance. he STILL WOULD HAVE SHOWN UP on the landing pad, wherever it was. probably in stark's/banner's lab. you know, when they were building the thing. right? how wouldn't they notice?

okay fine, cap, even as an old man, is still probably pretty lithe and nimble and could sneak out without anyone noticing. but i GUARANTEE you that someone, somewhere would notice the power surge and be like, wtf? but since NONE of that was actually shown or even hinted at, we are just filling in the blanks for a plothole so that it makes sense.

here's how it makes sense. the writers were told to have cap hand off the shield to falcon, just like they were told to have a female empowerment scene and so they just did it without caring about how consistent it is.
Click to expand...


Maybe he landed on the platform at any point since it was created, like how Thanos "snuck through" the portal with his entire army. I am sure cap could have done that as well.
For all we know the portable time version was the same as the main version just paired down.

Bucky knew Cap was not coming back and this was his plan all along. Bucky says " i will miss you" cap says "it will be OK"

Bucky also was the one who pointed out cap was on the bench. He did not point it out to Hulk, he specifically said Sam,. and sent cap over to him.
Bucky says to Sam "Go Ahead" and hangs back on purpose.

Bucky knew.
Bucky could never be Captain America. He is a Mass Murderer.



I want to see the movie about Cap and his adventures with 6 infinity stones and Mjolnir.
That has to be an amazing story.

Its kind funny after all the hunt for the stones they just put them in a briefcase and give them to Steve Rogers...Now would be a great time for "hail Hydra' =D
 
a c i d.f l y

a c i d.f l y

ಠ_ಠ
<Silver Donator>
20,062
99,466
Current Avengers after all is said and done, is Falcon, Winter Soldier, Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, Guardians (minus Gamora thus far), Thor, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Ant Man, War Machine... And basic bitch. And I guess gimped ass Professor Hulk.
 
Wombat

Wombat

Trakanon Raider
2,169
899
The short answer is Cap's timeline isn't internally consistent.

The No-Prize answers are "He always went back and lived normally until Tony's funeral", "The Ancient One sent him back in time for some number of decades that don't contradict the existing movies, then before Strange took over she sent him back to Tony's funeral", etc. etc. etc.

(Literally no one talks about the shield, which when we last saw, Thanos had beat to hell. Did he have a Stark forge a new one in the 50s? Did he have T'Challa/T'Chaka forge a new one in those decades? Did he get his damaged one reforged while people were going to the funeral? Who the hell knows!)

It's just another aspect of this script that could have used another pass or six.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
72,968
214,258
a c i d.f l y said:
Current Avengers after all is said and done, is Falcon, Winter Soldier, Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, Guardians (minus Gamora thus far), Thor, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Ant Man, War Machine... And basic bitch. And I guess gimped ass Professor Hulk.
Click to expand...
since basic bitch likes to fuck off in space, i guess BP is the next top dog? i mean he is the leader of a nation, so he has some experience. i thought 2014 Gamora was still around at the end of Endgame?
 
j00t

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,380
7,476
a c i d.f l y said:
You're making up a requirement, which, I agree, the movie made prevalent, but doesn't dictate the solution. His own timeline (the one he created by staying) would have figured things out on their own, allowing him to travel back to whenever, wherever, without restrictions on the primary timeline or needing to show back up on the platform he time traveled from.
Click to expand...

i'm not making up a requirement, you are creating a solution to a problem the movie caused.

a c i d.f l y said:
Returning the stones ensured parity in the primary timeline. Not the alternates that were created by the stones being removed.
Click to expand...

this, right here, is the key. returning the stones ensures parity in the primary timeline. the PRIMARY timeline. except everything you've been explaining is that they didn't go back to THEIR primary timeline. they went to ANOTHER timeline and took the stones from THAT timeline. so cap had to go back to THAT timeline to restore parity to THAT timeline.

if cap DIDN'T go back to his OWN history, that means they never took the stones from THEIR OWN timeline, but someone else's.

i get that you probably just made a quick mental shortcut which resulted in a mistake, but this is exactly what the writers did. they set up a bunch of rules and followed them, but at the very end forgot about it because the scene wasn't about time travel. it was about giving cap a happy send off and passing the torch
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,456
3,577
Chukzombi said:
since basic bitch likes to fuck off in space, i guess BP is the next top dog? i mean he is the leader of a nation, so he has some experience. i thought 2014 Gamora was still around at the end of Endgame?
Click to expand...
She was missing at the very end. Quill had her image up on a screen in his ship, i think it implied she was gone. She may have been snapped. We are never told.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
You must log in or register to reply here.