Bioshock Infinite

Sean_sl

shitlord
4,735
12
Yep, Daisy was Framed:http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Lady_Comstock

Father Comstock, believing that he must father a child for Columbia to go on past his death, had the Luteces seek out his child from an alternate universe, as he had become sterile due to a contraption used to open tears. Lady Comstock quickly became suspicious of this child, and soon accused Rosalind Lutece of being the mother, believing that she was having an affair with her husband. Rosalind denied the claim and told Lady Comstock of the child's true origins. Lady Comstock, confused and angered by her conflicting thoughts, decided she would need to break her silence about the child.[2] Father Comstock had her killed before she was able to reveal the true nature of Elizabeth's birth and framed Daisy Fitzroy for her murder.
Daisy's bio:http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Daisy_Fitzroy

This site is a pretty good collection of information.
 

Qhue

Tranny Chaser
7,658
4,634
I had the impression that stealing DeWitt's baby came after a long stretch of trying to conceive an heir and certainly after the launch of Columbia. This would mean that the whole American Religion concept that Comstock bases Columbia on would predate Elizabeth and the alternate reality shenanigans, or at least some of it.

If nothing else Booker meeting Lutece would be an interesting sidenote to explore.
 

TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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I had the impression that stealing DeWitt's baby came after a long stretch of trying to conceive an heir and certainly after the launch of Columbia. This would mean that the whole American Religion concept that Comstock bases Columbia on would predate Elizabeth and the alternate reality shenanigans, or at least some of it.

If nothing else Booker meeting Lutece would be an interesting sidenote to explore.
yeah, he was trying to conceive. there is a specific voxophone which plays Comstock's frustration over lack of heir and he has done all he can as a man.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
4,735
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Here's Comstock's Bio, Qhue:http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Zachary_Hale_Comstock

That should answer some questions. Spoilers, etc.

After The Battle of the Wounded Knee, Booker DeWitt was overcome with guilt for the atrocities he committed, and, so, sought a way to absolve himself of his sins. Coming across Preacher Witting, Booker was offered a chance to be reborn as a different man, and start anew, free of his past crimes.
In one reality, he found himself unable to go through with the baptism. However, in an alternate reality he accepted it, taking on the name Zachary Hale Comstock. After the baptism, Comstock is visited by an archangel of God named Columbia (Who is believed to be an alternate version of Elizabeth). Her visit causes him to believe that he was a prophet, and she tells him to create a floating city which she claimed would usher the world into righteousness.
He began to see the American way as the "New Eden," and the founding fathers as prophets to God's great plan. However, he also viewed the white man as the the true free race, and saw the minority races with contempt, believing them as little more than animals. He viewed Abraham Lincoln as the "Great Apostate," who brought nothing but war and death among the country.
In time, Comstock met quantum physicist Rosalind Lutece, and with her help, and the cooperation of the United States government, he was able to make the floating city a reality, naming it Columbia and creating an all white leadership called The Founders, with himself as the leader. Columbia became a symbol of American ideals, as the country was becoming a world power, and was dispatched to different parts of the world where it would be marveled by people throughout the world.
When the Boxer Rebellion in China occurred, Comstock discovered that the Chinese were holding American citizens hostage. Upon this discovery, Comstock ordered Columbia to open fire on the Chinese populace, considering them an enemy to American ideals. This act revealed to the world that Columbia was, in fact, a giant warship. The United States disavowed Columbia, and seeing this as a betrayal, Comstock seceded Columbia from the United States, and the city disappeared into the skies. From then on, Comstock considered Columbia the true America, believing the old America to be a husk of what it once was.
Over time, Rosalind Lutece found through experimentation of the quantum atom that she was able create a portal into an alternate universe, meeting an alternate version of herself, Robert Lutece, whom she quickly befriended, and began calling him her "twin." She reported her findings to Comstock. Upon this discovery, Comstock gave Rosalind the task of finding a way to create a tear that would allow passage into these holes. With the help of Robert, the two were able to create a machine to perform the task. Utilizing this machine, Comstock claimed to see into the future, having the citizens believe he was the true prophet of God. This also allowed Columbia to become more technologically advanced, with Jeremiah Fink helping to mass produce the technologies discovered through use of the machine.
However, Comstock soon discovered that using the contraption caused his body to deteriorate, causing him to age faster and rendering himself sterile. Desperate to carry his seed into the future, he decided to obtain a child from an alternate reality. The Luteces seek out and find Booker, offering to wipe away his debts if they give him his daughter, Anna DeWitt. Booker agreed, giving Anna to Robert, who brought her to Comstock.
Booker almost immediately regretted the decision, tracking down Robert. He finds them in an alleyway preparing to pass through a tear back to Comstock's dimension. He tries to stop Comstock from going through, but he manages to escape. However, the tear closes a moment too soon, slicing a portion of Anna's little finger off. Because a part of her body exists in another universe, Anna would later have an intuitive ability to manipulate the forces the Luteces brought to Columbia.[citation needed]
Seeing Anna as the key to making his dream of remaking the world a reality, he created Monument Island to house her, where she, after being experimented on, acquired her powers to create Tears-portals through dimensional space and time-but Comstock saw to the creation of the Siphon, which limited her powers.
Comstock used these inter-dimensional abilities with the siphon to create a guardian creature known as the Songbird, which would not only keep her safe, but also prevent her from escaping. Renaming her Elizabeth, Comstock began to call her the "Lamb of Columbia," and the Founders soon worshiped her as a savior.
Unfortunately for Comstock, overuse of Rosalind and Robert's contraption not only caused him to get cancer, but also gave him knowledge that Elizabeth's real father would eventually find a way to take her from him. He warned the populace that a "False Shepherd," would appear, bearing the mark "AD" on his right hand-which was what Booker branded on his own right hand-and became determined to turn Elizabeth into a version of himself.
However, Lady Comstock was growing more and more frustrated and angry with keeping the truth about Elizabeth from the populace. Knowing that she was going to break, Comstock had her killed, and framed his servant Daisy Fitzroy for her murder. Daisy would later become the leader of the Vox Populi. Soon afterwards, Rosalind and Robert had seen, through tears, the future of Columbia and what Elizabeth would soon become, and they planned to send Elizabeth back to her original universe in order to prevent that future from happening. However, Comstock soon discovered what they were doing, and ordered Jeremiah Fink to sabotage their contraption, apparently killing the two as they were using it.
In actuality, the sabotage caused Rosalind and Robert to exist across all space and time, giving them the ability to appear wherever, and whenever they wanted. Still determined to stop Comstock, they devised a plan to send Booker DeWitt into Comstock's universe in order for him to retrieve his long lost daughter. The process of crossing realities caused Booker to lose much of his memory about Comstock and Anna. The only part he remembered was Robert telling him "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt," which ultimately makes him believe that he is retrieving Elizabeth from Columbia and bringing her to New York to pay off his gambling debts. And, so, Booker ascends to Columbia to rescue Elizabeth.
Comstock sends the Founders after Booker, determined to stop him from taking Elizabeth. He even uses Elizabeth's powers at one point to create a version of Lady Comstock that is both living and dead in order to stop them from proceeding. But, an older Elizabeth, feeling regret that she allowed herself to become Comstock's heir-the executor of his desire to "drown in flame the mountains of man"-brings Booker to her universe after the Songbird captures the young Elizabeth, and gives him a note that will show her younger self how to avoid her fate, and, later, Booker is able to free Elizabeth from Comstock.
Determined to put an end to the evil of Comstock, Booker and Elizabeth board his ship, The Hand of the Prophet, and confront him in his cabin. There, Comstock shows remorse, wondering why he did not tell the truth to Elizabeth, and, instead, sent his armies after her and Booker. He grabs Elizabeth and demands Booker to tell her the truth of how she lost her finger. Booker kills him in a rage.
Destroying the siphon at Monument Island, Elizabeth is able to unlock the full extent of her powers. Using them, Booker remembers what he had done, and the two travel to the place of Booker's baptism after after the Battle of Wounded Knee (which he refused to go through with in his own universe). Booker and Elizabeth discover that an alternate Booker's acceptance of the baptism resulted in him being "reborn" as Zachary Comstock, meaning that Booker and Comstock were one and the same-Elizabeth reveals that, in order to truly destroy Comstock, throughout all the realities he exists in, Booker would have to die before his alternate self could take the baptism.
With this revelation, Booker allows a number of Elizabeths from different universes to drown him. Because of this, Comstock, and all the events that took place in the game, are erased completely from existence.

So... basically he actually started going Full Nutter right off, shortly after becoming Comstock, when an Alt-Elizabeth visited and told him to build the city for some reason and he perceived her to be some sort of Arch Angel.
 

Sebudai

Ssraeszha Raider
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This game is a better movie than 99% of all movies, and it's not even a movie. I mean, just compare it to say, Inception (a movie I enjoyed a lot). The plot is every bit as detailed/complex, and yet Bioshock manages to have far less plot holes, vastly more interesting and believable characters, a significantly richer and more detailed world/atmosphere, provides at least 5x the amount of entertainment in terms of duration, and it'salsoa fun game that I get to play?

These games make me think that this medium deserves just as much artistic... esteem(?) as the best films, books, sculptures or paintings. I feel sad that the people who "don't play video games" will miss out on the Bioshocks.
 

Caliane

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Questions that are left unanswered from my point of view:

1) Why does Elizabeth wait until 1984 to attack New York? Columbia is pretty much SDF-1 in 1912 and could easily take on the world at any time once she decides to do so.

2) Related to 1) Why does she attack New York in the first place? In the future we see she doesnt seem as focused on the Sodom Below as her father was.

3) What exactly sets Booker off on the path to crazytown? Booker seemed genuinely repentant with respect to his actions at Wounded Knee and that is what led him to the baptism in the first place, how does he go from that rebirth to hating anything that isn't 100% Americana?
yeah. Elizabeth attacking new york doesn't make much sense. There really isn't much of a reason for it. "time wore me down" the hell does that mean? I regret doing this, so im going to pull you through time to stop this and hope you can... but im not actually going to just stop myself... But whatever.
I really kindof expect some DLC on the booker->comstock. as again, really the timeline doesnt make much sense. with Elizabeth she waits 70 years.. for some reason? with Booker to comstock. in the span of 3 years, he. has a vision of the archangel. then meets Lutece. then starts looking into tears. becomes a bigot. Becomes sterile. gets married. founds columbia. figures out hes sterile. ages 20 years. steals Anna. then launches columbia. The hell? that is an awful lot. "overuse of the tears" might mean more then just looking into windows. I'm thinking, we might get an explanation that Comstock entered the tears and spent a good deal of time in them, returning back to the time he left.
 

porkchop sandwiches

Potato del Grande
524
546
Amazing game. Probably my favorite experience I've had with any form of fictional content - books, movies, games, etc.

There was one plot point that didn't make too much sense to me and was hoping one people here could give some insight.

Was it just me, or was Dewitt a little too carefree about jumping through the tears at the beginning. First when Chen was dead and again when they need to move chen's tools out of the police headquarters. The second time seems more out of place. It's like "turns out machines used to make weapons are indeed large. Well f it, lets just jump to an alternate reality instead of figuring out how to move them." Then after that tear the vox have risen, etc and Dewitt is like "let's get back to Fitzroy so we can get our ship back". I mean for all he knows Fitzroy could have died in the uprising and not even exist in this reality. Or, why would Dewitt expect Fitzroy to even know or remember a deal they made 2 realities ago?
 

Seventh

Golden Squire
892
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You know a game is great when the last like 10 pages of the thread are almost entirely spoiler tags, haha.
 

Sean_sl

shitlord
4,735
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yeah. Elizabeth attacking new york doesn't make much sense. There really isn't much of a reason for it. "time wore me down" the hell does that mean?
She was tortured and experimented on and indoctrinated with Comstock's crazy shit after she is recaptured for years and years until she was broken and turned into Comstock's progeny and started waging a war against America under his ideals. Eventually in 1984 when she is 90 some years old the years of regret over what she's done catch up to her and she saves Booker to save herself in the final version of the multiverse that we experience.
 

Joeboo

Molten Core Raider
8,157
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For the person wanting an honest review... I generally do not like FPS games. I suck at them, and I don't play them multi-player (I haven't been good at a FPS multi-player game since the original Unreal Tournament) Anyways, this is the first FPS/shooter* experience that I've found enthralling enough to actually finish since Half Life 2. I never finished Bioshock 1 or 2, grew bored of both and never finished them, and never finished either Borderlands either. Obviously, I'm not a FPS fan, but this game was damn fun. I've had fun with some of the better FPS games for a little while, like the Borderlands games, Far Cry games, etc, but Bioshock Infinite is probably the best I've played since Half Life 2. Definitely not going to say it's better than HL2, but it's come the closest of anything since then to comparing to it.

(* - I don't consider games like Deus Ex:HR or Skyrim FPS games, they just happen to use that graphical perspective, so I don't include them in the same grouping that I do Half Life/Bioshock/Borderlands/etc)
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
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This game is a better movie than 99% of all movies, and it's not even a movie. I mean, just compare it to say, Inception (a movie I enjoyed a lot). The plot is every bit as detailed/complex, and yet Bioshock manages to have far less plot holes, vastly more interesting and believable characters, a significantly richer and more detailed world/atmosphere, provides at least 5x the amount of entertainment in terms of duration, and it'salsoa fun game that I get to play?

These games make me think that this medium deserves just as much artistic... esteem(?) as the best films, books, sculptures or paintings. I feel sad that the people who "don't play video games" will miss out on the Bioshocks.
The thing is, the game takes about 14 hours to finish, movie rarely exceeds 3, so you have much more space to tie up all loose ends. I think the story is definitely great, since there are none of the hollywood clich?s like mandatory love interests/witty sidekicks, but you are comparing apples and oranges.
 

Pyros

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Finished and really liked the game overall, but the ghost boss fight was absolutely awful. Spawning infinite numbers of mobs when you have very limited ammo is dumb as fuck and favors a brute force approach(kill the ghost before I run out of ammo/salts). I guess there might have been some gears that could have helped with the problem but didn't find them(random drops yay). Overall I hated it. It's even more annoying if you happen to die and the boss regens like 25% life while you don't get any ammo back so you're fucked the more you die, which again favors the brute force approach.

Other than that fight though I found the difficulty to be alright(on hard), not too hard but had a few spikes of difficulty at times that made it interesting enough, I liked the simple mechanics for spell/weapon upgrades and the story/setting was obviously great. I regret that once again in a FPS/PseudoFPS they have a melee attack and give you a ton of upgrades related to that melee attack but it's still for the most part completely unviable to make a pure melee, which in turns makes those upgrades fairly worthless. Wish they'd stop doing that, either give a melee attack for the sake of having one, or make melee viable as a weapon choice. By for example having the very simple concept of blocking shit, so you don't get assraped by pretty much every fucking boss/hard fight in the game because it's balanced around you avoiding the hits but meleeing means you can't.
 

ubiquitrips

Lord Nagafen Raider
651
109
Love playing through this game, running through again on 1999 mode. I feel like possession is a bit overpowered. Possession + Charge + equipment for 30% posses chance on melee hit = gg. My first playthrough I barely utilized tears because I thought it hurt Elizabeth somehow and it was still easy with that combo.

Weapon choice was nice, no complaints there. Heater seemed like a waste. Hailfire was pretty amusing and greatly helps with the bank ghost fight to burst down the boss and ignore the zigs.

Is it the difficulty that changes the location equipment like hats / shirts, etc? Or is it truly random?

On my 1999 play through I have gotten two items, forget the slot, one gives brief invuln after eating a snack. The other gives brief invuln after popping off of a skyline. Those were very much helpful on 1999 mode. Allows for more in your face fighting if you are near a skyline. Jump off, fight, jump on, jump off, fight. I was excited to get the possession upgrade item, but it definitely isn't in the same spot.

I am going to experiment with other Vigor combos. I like the magnetic shield idea but never really utilized it.
 

Pyksel

Rasterizing . . .
840
284
Finished and really liked the game overall, but the ghost boss fight was absolutely awful. Spawning infinite numbers of mobs when you have very limited ammo is dumb as fuck and favors a brute force approach(kill the ghost before I run out of ammo/salts). I guess there might have been some gears that could have helped with the problem but didn't find them(random drops yay). Overall I hated it. It's even more annoying if you happen to die and the boss regens like 25% life while you don't get any ammo back so you're fucked the more you die, which again favors the brute force approach.

Other than that fight though I found the difficulty to be alright(on hard), not too hard but had a few spikes of difficulty at times that made it interesting enough, I liked the simple mechanics for spell/weapon upgrades and the story/setting was obviously great. I regret that once again in a FPS/PseudoFPS they have a melee attack and give you a ton of upgrades related to that melee attack but it's still for the most part completely unviable to make a pure melee, which in turns makes those upgrades fairly worthless. Wish they'd stop doing that, either give a melee attack for the sake of having one, or make melee viable as a weapon choice. By for example having the very simple concept of blocking shit, so you don't get assraped by pretty much every fucking boss/hard fight in the game because it's balanced around you avoiding the hits but meleeing means you can't.
If you're talking about the ghost boss fight that happens on the steps with all the police riot shields dug in, you can tag the big bombs that are all around and blow them up for significant damage.
 

TrollfaceDeux

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i dunno what's what anymore.
rrr_img_19370.jpg
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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If you're talking about the ghost boss fight that happens on the steps with all the police riot shields dug in, you can tag the big bombs that are all around and blow them up for significant damage.
All of them, this part was actually the easiest I think.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
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the scar isn't explained is it? he did NOT have it, when he stole Anna.