Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

Cad_sl said:

I wouldn't start sucking your own dick just yet. Arbitrary has a point. I'm busy writing a brief but it seems to me you've been saying biology is kaput and society dictates everything. But you agree with me that biology started the gender roles going and societal factors snowballed it?

That seems like pretty different statements to me. Can you even succinctly state your position in 2-3 sentences so we know what you're trying to say?

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Primate biological forces created early primate social forces. Social forces compounded over time as society became more complex once we started evolving away from the other primates, and even more so once we developed civilization. Primate biological forces diminished over time in relevance to overall cognitive capacity (the rest of our brain got much much bigger while the parts containing the primate instincts slowly shrank.) Then we developed new forebrain-only behaviors that aren't even connected to the primate behaviors. So the effects that instincts had on our behaviors shrank consistently over time while social forces grew massively.

fanaskin_sl said:

it's still vagueness though, you can't intelligibly determine what choice is. that literally might be beyond comprehension whether people choose to do things or are determined to or where the line between them occurs.

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Oh yeah, the 100+ year old nature vs nuture arguments weren't enough, let's fucking go into some 2500+ year old navel gazing on the nature of free will. I mean, fuck, why not?

Jive Turkey_sl said:

you think arguments against free will don't have hard evidence?

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All of the neuroscience evidence against free will pertains only to 'intention to move' and other lesser motion behaviors, and have absolutely nothing to do with complex behaviors or higher level decision making.

Jive Turkey_sl said:

Mist seems to be confusing specific modern day professions with biological aptitudes. Her argument "Are you trying to say the ability to write java script is biological?" is really only a rung or two up the ladder from "If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?". If you apply any critical thought to your question, you'd realize that people just don't out of the blue decide they want to write java script for a living. An interest in computing is a prerequisite. Computers and videogames in general cater to the male propensity for more solitary activities, violence, hand eye coordination, etc. So it should come as no surprise that coders are generally male

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Professional computer programming is not solitary, and does not involve violence or hand-eye coordination. Regardless, where's your evidence that the 'male propensity' for solitary activities is a biological one? The rates of being classified as an introvert (which has a strong biological component) are very very very close, within 1-2 percentage points between the genders, so that can't be it. Further, during the entire middle of the previous century, women were more often considered introverts than men, as women stayed home more and men interacted with far more people at their jobs. So during the heyday of gender relations that many of these MRA types want to return to, women were denied access to even the jobs that supposedly fit their supposedly biological propensity towards social interaction.

These facts strongly lend themselves towards my side of the argument, that these roles are socially constructed.

So what exactly is your argument?