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khalid

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
Who the fuck is coming around to her point of view? Who other than Mist is denying evolution in regards to non-physical sexual traits?

Come on bro, you aren't this delusional.
 
Cad

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,426
49,042
Tanoomba_sl said:
I honestly don't care whether she thinks she agrees with me or not. I certainly agree with her.

Opposition repeatedly and dishonestly putting words into her mouth: Check.
Opposition creating stacks upon stacks of strawmen: Check.
Opposition unironically displaying the same disdain for science they accuse her of: Check.
Oppositionslowlycoming around and acknowledging her original point has merit: Check.
Opposition once again embarrassing themselves into defending an arbitrary stance based entirely on "feels" for pages and pages: Double check.

Holy shit, maybe she is my alt. Am... am I Tyler Durden?
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Things Tanoomba and Mist have in common:

Post absolutist bullshit that is clearly wrong: check
Cherry pick replies to only address points made by idiots: check
Express point very poorly and continually change it so that people don't even really know what the fuck you're talking about: check
Claim to be winning the argument the entire time: check
Wait until you are totally cornered and then change argument to match what everyone is saying and is clearly different than what you started with: check
Claim this as some kind of victory: check
Act exasperated afterwards that people would disagree with you even though they finally agreed even though nobody agreed with you: check
 
khalid

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
Cad_sl said:
Wait until you are totally cornered and then change argument to match what everyone is saying and is clearly different than what you started with: check
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Yeah, heh, he did that in the Zimmerman trial and several other threads.

To be fair, most of the time changing your mind in the face of evidence is a good thing. You just don't get to hold your head high and cheer that you were right the entire time.
 
Mist

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,197
23,354
Cad_sl said:
I wouldn't start sucking your own dick just yet. Arbitrary has a point. I'm busy writing a brief but it seems to me you've been saying biology is kaput and society dictates everything. But you agree with me that biology started the gender roles going and societal factors snowballed it?

That seems like pretty different statements to me. Can you even succinctly state your position in 2-3 sentences so we know what you're trying to say?
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Primate biological forces created early primate social forces. Social forces compounded over time as society became more complex once we started evolving away from the other primates, and even more so once we developed civilization. Primate biological forces diminished over time in relevance to overall cognitive capacity (the rest of our brain got much much bigger while the parts containing the primate instincts slowly shrank.) Then we developed new forebrain-only behaviors that aren't even connected to the primate behaviors. So the effects that instincts had on our behaviors shrank consistently over time while social forces grew massively.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

Well known agitator
<Silver Donator>
55,942
138,347
Mist_sl said:
Primate biological forces created early primate social forces. Social forces compounded over time as society became more complex once we started evolving away from the other primates, and even more so once we developed civilization. Primate biological forces diminished over time in relevance to overall cognitive capacity (the rest of our brain got much much bigger while the parts containing the primate instincts slowly shrank.) Then we developed new forebrain-only behaviors that aren't even connected to the primate behaviors. So the effects that instincts had on our behaviors shrank consistently over time while social forces grew massively.
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it's still vagueness though, you can't intelligibly determine what choice is. that literally might be beyond comprehension whether people choose to do things or are determined to or where the line between them occurs.
 
Mist

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,197
23,354
fanaskin_sl said:
it's still vagueness though, you can't intelligibly determine what choice is. that literally might be beyond comprehension whether people choose to do things or are determined to or where the line between them occurs.
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Oh yeah, the 100+ year old nature vs nuture arguments weren't enough, let's fucking go into some 2500+ year old navel gazing on the nature of free will. I mean, fuck, why not?
 
Mist

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,197
23,354
Jive Turkey_sl said:
you think arguments against free will don't have hard evidence?
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All of the neuroscience evidence against free will pertains only to 'intention to move' and other lesser motion behaviors, and have absolutely nothing to do with complex behaviors or higher level decision making.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,720
9,081
Mist seems to be confusing specific modern day professions with biological aptitudes. Her argument "Are you trying to say the ability to write java script is biological?" is really only a rung or two up the ladder from "If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?". If you apply any critical thought to your question, you'd realize that people just don't out of the blue decide they want to write java script for a living. An interest in computing is a prerequisite. Computers and videogames in general cater to the male propensity for more solitary activities, violence, hand eye coordination, etc. So it should come as no surprise that coders are generally male
 
Palum

Palum

what Suineg set it to
26,509
41,244
Does any man really disagree that women are not obligated to 'give' (or have) sex? I mean, I always thought it was a pretty quick resolution if you dump the chick. But I guess I never understood this beta/passive/feminine logic that you should remain in a relationship you don't find fulfilling because fat women deserve it or some such nonsense.
 
Xequecal

Xequecal

Trump's Staff
11,559
-2,388
Araysar_sl said:
Man sends wife a spreadsheet of all the times she denied him sex
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Some of the quotes on that page are fantastic.

Wow....that's quite a load of crap. Relationships are about BOTH person's needs. Not just the man's needs! If you love someone and they desire to have sex with you, but you aren't in the mood and you give in to satisfy their "manly needs" (Because sex is apparently something only men desire.) then you are worse than the woman who says "I'm not in the mood."
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How do you even have these views and still manage to function day to day without cognitive dissonance driving you insane?
 
Mist

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,197
23,354
Jive Turkey_sl said:
Mist seems to be confusing specific modern day professions with biological aptitudes. Her argument "Are you trying to say the ability to write java script is biological?" is really only a rung or two up the ladder from "If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?". If you apply any critical thought to your question, you'd realize that people just don't out of the blue decide they want to write java script for a living. An interest in computing is a prerequisite. Computers and videogames in general cater to the male propensity for more solitary activities, violence, hand eye coordination, etc. So it should come as no surprise that coders are generally male
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Professional computer programming is not solitary, and does not involve violence or hand-eye coordination. Regardless, where's your evidence that the 'male propensity' for solitary activities is a biological one? The rates of being classified as an introvert (which has a strong biological component) are very very very close, within 1-2 percentage points between the genders, so that can't be it. Further, during the entire middle of the previous century, women were more often considered introverts than men, as women stayed home more and men interacted with far more people at their jobs. So during the heyday of gender relations that many of these MRA types want to return to, women were denied access to even the jobs that supposedly fit their supposedly biological propensity towards social interaction.

These facts strongly lend themselves towards my side of the argument, that these roles are socially constructed.

So what exactly is your argument?
 
Lendarios

Lendarios

Trump's Staff
<Gold Donor>
19,360
-17,424
lendarios_sl said:
So what are we arguing? Mist agrees that there are differences at a genetic level, she doesn't think they affect that much the behavior of the adult. It is an opinion, without facts but is an opinion nonetheless. In order to show counter example we will have to have a child been raised by wolves?
Remember it is a soft science where everyone is right. ...
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Mist_sl said:
Primate biological forces created early primate social forces. Social forces compounded over time as society became more complex once we started evolving away from the other primates, and even more so once we developed civilization. Primate biological forces diminished over time in relevance to overall cognitive capacity (the rest of our brain got much much bigger while the parts containing the primate instincts slowly shrank.) Then we developed new forebrain-only behaviors that aren't even connected to the primate behaviors. So the effects that instincts had on our behaviors shrank consistently over time while social forces grew massively.
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Question.. you keep mentioning how instincts have slowly disappeared with the advancement of language. Can u give a concrete example, about an instinct that was present in early human populations, but no longer exist in modern times?
 
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