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Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,722
9,087
Tanoomba_sl said:
Swing and a miss.
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I think the issue with you is not so much the questions you're asking, but the selectivity in when and for what crimes you'd consider asking these questions. How many times after a murder do you think the Swedish Ch(i)ef of Police has come out and publicly asked what kind of environment would lead to a person committing that murder? I don't know, but I'm going to guess probably one time. Literally every crime committed anywhere is a product of brain physiology and environment. That doesn't take the responsibility off the perpetrator. Yet when these questions are only asked selectively for certain crimes and for certain populations, it sounds more like making excuses, shifting the blame, and trying to advance an agenda. Nobody ever asked what environment caused the Aurora movie theatre shootings, but when the Isla Vista shootings occurred, the dialogue predictably shifted from the shooter and onto 'cultural misogyny'.
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

ジョーディーすれいやー
<Banned>
10,170
1,439
Jive Turkey_sl said:
I think the issue with you is not so much the questions you're asking, but the selectivity in when and for what crimes you'd consider asking these questions. How many times after a murder do you think the Swedish Ch(i)ef of Police has come out and publicly asked what kind of environment would lead to a person committing that murder? I don't know, but I'm going to guess probably one time. Literally every crime committed anywhere is a product of brain physiology and environment. That doesn't take the responsibility off the perpetrator. Yet when these questions are only asked selectively for certain crimes and for certain populations, it sounds more like making excuses, shifting the blame, and trying to advance an agenda. Nobody ever asked what environment caused the Aurora movie theatre shootings, but when the Isla Vista shootings occurred, the dialogue predictably shifted from the shooter and onto 'cultural misogyny'.
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No.

I haven't been "asking questions" about immigrant violence, let alone selectively. My one and only statement about that topic was that it's bullshit to call someone an apologist because they dared to consider the socioeconomic reasons behind violent acts, and that was in response to a specific journalist's article which objectively made zero excuses for the attackers and didn't lay an ounce of blame on the victims. I never made a statement about the police chief or what he said.

But all that has fuck all to do with Chanur's comment, where he makes a baseless claim about my apparent "intellectual disconnect" in response to something Lindy West said. I have never spoken on that topic, I have never said or implied that I share similar views, I have never demonstrated this "disconnect", and I don't appreciate dishonest assholes taking potshots at me to try to score points with the crowd.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,722
9,087
Tanoomba_sl said:
I never made a statement about the police chief or what he said.
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Except you did, and that was kind of my point

Tanoomba_sl said:
What the fuck is wrong with you? There's RAGE to be had here! Howdareyou try to evenconsiderthe possibility that that police chief wasn't wholly excusing, and by extension endorsing, murder by stabbing (if done by brown people)? Take that shit elsewhere, you SJW mass rape apologist.
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You were right in that the police chief probably wasn't excusing or endorsing. Except people like him only choose to ponder these questions under very specific and predictable circumstances.

It all might have nothing to do with Chanur's specific comment, but it does have something to do with the way you're treated in general
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

ジョーディーすれいやー
<Banned>
10,170
1,439
Jive Turkey_sl said:
Except you did, and that was kind of my point



You were right in that the police chief probably wasn't excusing or endorsing. Except people like him only choose to ponder these questions under very specific and predictable circumstances.

It all might have nothing to do with Chanur's specific comment, but it does have something to do with the way you're treated in general
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Yes, that comment was one of a string of posts I made sarcastically drawing attention to the "apologist" narrative, and it doesn't contain any agreement or disagreement with the chief's words.

As for the "specific and predictable circumstances", yeah, you're probably right. When a subject is as charged and polarizing as this one is, you're probably going to see officials tread more lightly so as not to fan the flames of hatred and spawn more conflict. That doesn't mean it's right, that doesn't mean it's the best way to react, but it does mean that it's a reaction whose motivation goes beyond "apologizing for murderers". It seems to me like Sweden had their heart in the right place but bit off more than they could chew and are having to deal with all kinds of shit they weren't expecting. They're in a lose/lose situation and seem to be in "damage control" mode now where they're trying to appear level-headed and open-minded instead of feeding an "us vs. them" narrative. Unfortunately, this is a situation where many people feel anything less than "us vs. them" is just going to make things worse.

In most cases (GamerGaters vs Sarkeesian, for instance), it's very easy to show how the "us vs. them" dichotomy is counterproductive and downright stupid. It's a bit hard to admit, but it's not so clear when it comes to the actions of these refugees. I understand why people get as emotionally invested as they do in discussions about this. But I stand by my assertion that villainizing people over subjective interpretations of their words doesn't help anything.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,722
9,087
Tanoomba_sl said:
Yes, that comment was one of a string of posts I made sarcastically drawing attention to the "apologist" narrative, and it doesn't contain any agreement or disagreement with the chief's words.

As for the "specific and predictable circumstances", yeah, you're probably right. When a subject is as charged and polarizing as this one is, you're probably going to see officials tread more lightly so as not to fan the flames of hatred and spawn more conflict. That doesn't mean it's right, that doesn't mean it's the best way to react, but it does mean that it's a reaction whose motivation goes beyond "apologizing for murderers". It seems to me like Sweden had their heart in the right place but bit off more than they could chew and are having to deal with all kinds of shit they weren't expecting. They're in a lose/lose situation and seem to be in "damage control" mode now where they're trying to appear level-headed and open-minded instead of feeding an "us vs. them" narrative. Unfortunately, this is a situation where many people feel anything less than "us vs. them" is just going to make things worse.

In most cases (GamerGaters vs Sarkeesian, for instance), it's very easy to show how the "us vs. them" dichotomy is counterproductive and downright stupid. It's a bit hard to admit, but it's not so clear when it comes to the actions of these refugees. I understand why people get as emotionally invested as they do in discussions about this. But I stand by my assertion that villainizing people over subjective interpretations of their words doesn't help anything.
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Mostly reasonable, so we probably don't need any more back and forth, but I will say when someone is dead, treading lightly comes off as tone deaf at best.

Anyway, let's all get back to shitting on one another
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

Ssraeszha Raider
12,022
22,504
"Treading lightly" is apologetics by another name. Apologetics from authorities who are being counted on to protect the citizenry is what is actually fanning the flames of hatred and violence.

They don't need to feed the "us vs. them" narrative. It IS us vs. them, and your naivety on this matter is going to get people raped and murdered. Modern Islam is incompatible with the West. These people can either change their religion or they can be sent back to their fucking shitholes to rape and murder each other for the rest of time. They don't belong here until their religious beliefs change. Period.
 
Tanoomba

Tanoomba

ジョーディーすれいやー
<Banned>
10,170
1,439
Sebudai_sl said:
"Treading lightly" is apologetics by another name. Apologetics from authorities who are being counted on to protect the citizenry is what is actually fanning the flames of hatred and violence.

They don't need to feed the "us vs. them" narrative. It IS us vs. them, and your naivety on this matter is going to get people raped and murdered. Modern Islam is incompatible with the West. These people can either change their religion or they can be sent back to their fucking shitholes to rape and murder each other for the rest of time. They don't belong here until their religious beliefs change. Period.
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See, this is exactly the type of bullshit I'm talking about. I make a perfectly reasonable post that acknowledges the difficulty of this issue, and I somehow get accused of being responsible for people getting raped and murdered. I'm not the bad guy here, asshole, and you sure as fuck aren't helping anything or anyone by trying to portray me as such.

Having said that, I'm not interested in a big argument right now. As a peace offering, I will agree with you that a lot of Islam beliefs are incompatible with the West and that the only way they can properly integrate is by changing their religious beliefs. However, as someone who's watching (and participating in) the integration process first-hand, I don't think that's the pipe dream it's made out to be. I teach a lot of Muslim kids, and they get the same lessons as everyone else, including Halloween, Christmas, and Easter-themed lessons. It is understood that these kids and their families are expected to assimilate and that we aren't going to change our culture to accommodate their beliefs, and they're OK with that. I'm sorry if that comes off as "naive" to you, but it's just the reality of day-to-day life for me.
 
Sebudai

Sebudai

Ssraeszha Raider
12,022
22,504
The mass importation of these "refugees" was criminally negligent. People like Angela Merkel are responsible for what happened in places like Cologne, and as far as I'm concerned, idealistic, naive apologists who provide these irresponsible actions political cover are at least partially responsible as well.

If you set up the rape or murder of another person, in the West you get held criminally responsible for that. If this is short of that, it's by maybe an inch. People like Angela Merkel should feel deeply ashamed of themselves.
 
Adebisi

Adebisi

Clump of Cells
<Silver Donator>
27,713
32,825
odlXY7z.jpg
 
khorum

khorum

Murder Apologist
24,338
81,363
That's fucking plebbit and their dumbass anti-doxxing "rule" that only applies to non-SJW subs.

If that was a meme from Ghazi or SRS not only would the identities be unconvered they'd paste the home addresses and pictures of the offenders kids on there too.
 
Chanur

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
<Gold Donor>
28,571
45,672
All that extra weight and none went to her tits. Terrible. Weed whacker those pits too.
 
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