Camelot Unchained MMO

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Uh well, all there is to CU right now is Mark Jacobs and the myriad of ideas he's tossing around. There isn't anything else to discuss. There really is not much difference, right now, betweenCamelotUnchainedand any of the armchair dev threads on this forum.
thankyou. god. it feels like they are putting their foot in the door each time they post. there's a level of naivte that's incredibly annoying.
i'm all for delving into ideas. but they are just that.
 

Pyksel

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Tmac I commend you for attempting to defend the project which was funded by Kickstarter, not Kickfinisher and some folks tend to forget that. The problem you're running into is two-fold. First, the level of information is certainly out there to validate the things you're stating and it seems to be much easier for folks to find the negativity in it instead of doing their own research. The second part is if you do provide working concepts and tangible ideas, it's very easy for those same folks to criticize them in a vacuum to the point where posting more contextual information to supplement will only deem you as a shill. Look at all the games that's happened with. I think the issue I have is that if someone really doesn't care about the project and is convinced it will fail then why continue to try and convince others in this thread? It's a no win situation and much like our continued optimism, it's not going to dissuade either party. It's being sold as a niche game so if you don't like the ideas behind it no one is expecting you to like it.

If the project is successful (a very subjective term at this point) then I think we can agree that those that bashed it will probably pick it up and check it out. If it fails then those folks warning us can throw out all their "I told you so's" and be done with it. It's really no different than any other project that has rolled through here that people have tried to defend or pick apart. Hell, even conceptual projects like EQNext, Copernicus, etc. had far less to show thanCamelotUnchainedbut look at where they are right now. At least CU has some forward momentum now, is attempting to do something different, and will certainly be fun to watch over the next 2 years.
 

Tmac

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The second part is if you do provide working concepts and tangible ideas, it's very easy for those same folks to criticize them in a vacuum to the point where posting more contextual information to supplement will only deem you as a shill.
Truth.

pyksel_sl said:
If the project is successful (a very subjective term at this point) then I think we can agree that those that bashed it will probably pick it up and check it out. If it fails then those folks warning us can throw out all their "I told you so's" and be done with it.
I didn't give to the Kickstarter. Why? Because I'm not going to sit around for 2 years to see if my $25 was honored in creating the game they said they would. Gaming startups are no different than any other startup, so putting my hopes (money) in an MMO is a waste of my time (money) as far as I'm concerned.

If the game succeeds, awesome, I'll play it. If it dies, it can lay next to every other seed of MMO-promise that fell on rocky soil.

My "shilling" has less to do with the success of the game, because quite frankly my dear I just don't give a damn, and more to do with the fact that there are a few pieces of concrete content that we could actually discuss and people are pulling the "They haven't shown us anything that's real" card. It all leaves me feeling quite incredulous.

Too much Mark Jacobs hate. Jesus. I considered myself pretty knowledgeable in the MMO space, but you guys are on another level.
 
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2 days work in unity for the housing demo.

it's not concrete. it doesn't have to be impressive. it's probably even a good way to come up with ideas. i don't expect a fully fledged implementation and the idea itself is great and has potential. it's just an idea. one of many "whatif's" in his design outline. you can discuss it: talk about build costs, materials, plot restrictions, blahblah... but the discussion would be more hollistic; it can't be detailed based on the information given. read the kickstarter comments on stealth - do the comments suggest that there are details or just speculation?

i don't doubt this game will be made, i infact expect that i will like it. but fuck you and your difference of opinion.
 

Tmac

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2 days work in unity for the housing demo.
Yeah, they just missed the 5 day quota for legit content.
rolleyes.png


i don't doubt this game will be made, i in fact expect that i will like it. but fuck you and your difference of opinion.
Haha. If it weren't for the negs I'd assume you were being clever.
 
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i feel like i'm being trolled by christians!

this is going to be a long 2-3 years.

so perhaps the best part of daoc was that, at least for the solo minst (aside from being able to charm purps at one point in time. i quit the day they raised the rr to rr13? when i found out that those extra points wouldn't further increase the moblvl to be charmed), was the selection of your stats on armor (sc). you couldn't have it all statwise which i think was what made it great. this made more of an impact if you were solo. you'd have armor pieces with /use abilities but would offer lowered stats for which you had to compensate with pc armor.
add that to the wishlist
 

Mr Creed

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Tmac, I think the reason there's no interesting discussion on the concepts put forth by the CU team is because not enough people here on rerolled care about it. If lets say a dozen posters were very interested and following it closely you would have each of these concepts pop up here when they were released, with a page or more of discussion about them. Instead you have silence with the occasional "mark ruined WAR and christmas" posts. Look at Wildstar, they are obviously further along in development but our actual knowledge about some of the concepts isnt any more then that shadow-stealth blurb. But it is talked about, because people care (and draegan shills it well). Myself I dont care about the game, wont buy it, (think it'll fail but dont need to remind everyone on each page), and only look at the thread from time to time to see whats up out of general interest in the genre. I bet that the case for many posters here.
 

Caliane

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I think War was ruined by mismanagement. So yeah, I'm not going to look at anything Jacobs touches.
I also obviously have serious questions about kickstarter.
 

Pyksel

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I think War was ruined by mismanagement. So yeah, I'm not going to look at anything Jacobs touches.
I also obviously have serious questions about kickstarter.
I definitely don't absolve Mark from his wrongdoings with WAR or DAOC but I do believe that part of the problems with WAR were because of EA. Now, what will be interesting moving forward is whether or not he can deliver without the push of a publisher behind him as a scapegoat if something goes wrong.

What serious questions do you have about Kickstarter?
 

Caliane

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Brought some of them up in the Garriot thread, not going to rehash it here.
 

Draegan_sl

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Its just an animated video of what they would like to do. I'll gladly discuss things when I see an in game demo like Wildstar. I mean how naive are you tmac?
 

Grim1

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People are against it just because it is Mark Jacobs at the wheel, they rationalized their reasons after the fact. If it were their favorite dev (whoever that is) they would be all in. The actual facts of the kickstarter don't really matter.

Of course their isn't much to show for it, like someone said before it's called KickSTARTER for a reason. The money is to fund developement, not to pay for an existing title. Complaining about it is petty and childish. Now I can understand if you have issues with Kickstarter as a platform but then be honest about it.
 

Ravishing

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I'm neutral to this whole project.

The big thing going in its favor is the very narrow focus: RvR. I think this will allow them to provide most of what they aim for. GW2's WvW has struggled since it wasn't their only priority.


A lot of Mark's ideas seem far-fetched or just not fun at all, even though he proclaims they will be "awesome". His unique and "awesome" ideas for The Depths do not seem fun to me. As an example:

Idea #1: Sacrifice yourself to turn into a "boss". Sounds cool at first but will likely never get used unless there are rewards for being the boss. Gimmicky shit like this doesn't appeal to me. It's like playing the game with god-mode enabled, very boring, no worry about dying, no gratification.

Idea #2: "After you're kicked out of the Depths, you can watch your enemies trip over all the traps you created from an Inn". This will likely turn into some sort of Spectator mode, which will be quite boring. Sure, maybe there will be some gratification watching the enemies fall over your traps the first time through, then you realize they can respawn and try again after all your shit has been tripped up and there is nothing you can do about it. You realize you just expended a ton of time and resources for nothing... Boring.

TL;DR: Too many ideas where you are not in control of your character. Too many gimmicky ideas.



I am excited about constructing structures and creating blueprints. I am cautiously optimistic. If it gives as much freedom as minecraft & what they are showing, I can only envision a landscape full of giant tits and penises and other abominations. The freedoms as shown in the videos will likely get cut down a lot. I foresee them providing "prefabs" which you then assemble to create your structure... which could still be fun.

And of course we don't know the biggest things such as how combat will flow, rewards, death penalties, social hooks, etc.
 

Draegan_sl

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Can we stop with the bullshit "Kick-starter not kick-finisher"? That just sounds retarded. Just look at Star Citizen if you want contrast it to something.
 

Grim1

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Can we stop with the bullshit "Kick-starter not kick-finisher"? That just sounds retarded. Just look at Star Citizen if you want contrast it to something.
A lot of games have been funded on kickstarter with far less than what Mark has shown. The kickstarter / finisher point is valid.

The whole truth is that some people either don't trust Mark Jacobs or kickstarter (or maybe they just don't like RvR). Those are valid issues and if people just stated that then it is a respectable postition. But claiming anything else is petty, childish and rationalization at it's worst.
 

Draegan_sl

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Regardless of the product, when someone says Kickfinisher, it sounds just like when a fanboy goes "It's just beta!" and "There will be a patch that fixes everything (miracle patch)!"

It also makes you sound stupid, but that's beyond the point.
 

Pyksel

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Can we stop with the bullshit "Kick-starter not kick-finisher"? That just sounds retarded. Just look at Star Citizen if you want contrast it to something.
I haven't followed Star Citizen but I did skim through all 13 pages of updates and they have made good progress for a single player game. I particularly liked their early spaceport concept art to 3D environment test. Wouldn't a more realistic comparison be Pathfinder Online though when you compare the progression of one game in the genre to another game in the genre?
 

Utnayan

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I agree with Utnayan and Deanut but man what a pair of negative nancies. Give it a rest and do something with your life besides shit talking these guys before they fail.
It's based on more disgust at this point that this little mole keeps popping out of his hole. Deanut and I are just playing Whack a mole. Look at it that way instead. With that said, what's more disgusting is the amount of money he has gotten based off lip service which, in the past, he has NEVER once delivered on.

Oh, and Tmac, glad you like his ideas. Anyone here can write up ideas and "innovate" on paper. It's the implementation that counts, and he hasn't done anything but bring a Molyneux tutorship into Kickstarter. Past, present, future.

As far as EA having a say in WAR and SWTOR, nonsense. I'll be the first to attack EA every chance I get, but with regard to WAR and SWTOR, these folks were given blanket checks to design a game they wanted too. If anything, there wasn't any control from the publisher hovering over Jacobs/Vogel and the end result was like watching two 5 year olds play in traffic without parental supervision.
 

Pyksel

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It's based on more disgust at this point that this little mole keeps popping out of his hole. Deanut and I are just playing Whack a mole. Look at it that way instead. With that said, what's more disgusting is the amount of money he has gotten based off lip service which, in the past, he has NEVER once delivered on.

Oh, and Tmac, glad you like his ideas. Anyone here can write up ideas and "innovate" on paper. It's the implementation that counts, and he hasn't done anything but bring a Molyneux tutorship into Kickstarter. Past, present, future.

As far as EA having a say in WAR and SWTOR, nonsense. I'll be the first to attack EA every chance I get, but with regard to WAR and SWTOR, these folks were given blanket checks to design a game they wanted too. If anything, there wasn't any control from the publisher hovering over Jacobs/Vogel and the end result was like watching two 5 year olds play in traffic without parental supervision.
Wasn't Jacobs already gone like 6-8 months after SWTOR was first announced? I could have swore he left right after Bioware and Mythic merged.