Camelot Unchained MMO

I handed Marc an hour's worth of my time based purely on DAOC. I realize he shat the bed on WAR. I'm comfortable taking a 50/50 shot with fifty bucks.

I still don't fully trust MJ to be honest, your right hes fucked up alot of shit. But even his fucked up shit has been more fun that most of the other shit I've been doing for the past 5/6 years. With that said, if they had deleted Bright Wizards and rewrote the engine for Warhammer to actual work most of the time with a hundred+ people in an area the I might still be playing the game.

Thats all I am hoping for honestly. Warhammer on a not shit engine, I could probably even deal with Bright Pieces of OP Shit again (I don't think some of my friends could, but I think I could). Can you imagine if if Forts (I think they were called Forts whatever the Giant zone size keeps before the cities were called) that actually worked? Everyone I had ever been in lagged to shit with like 150 people all together

pyksel_sl said:

Wasn't Jacobs already gone like 6-8 months after SWTOR was first announced? I could have swore he left right after Bioware and Mythic merged.

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MJ was "fired' a long time before SWTOR was announced. MJ took the brunt of Warhammer's fail and alot of the people who were probably as responsible as him still work at EA/Mythic/Bioware.

Also alot of SWTOR and Warhammer's failings lie with EA. To say otherwise isExtremelyignorant. Just Google EA louse if you haven't seen the original Blog post there are copies of it. Here's an excerpt

"So we shut up and did what we were told, by people too afraid to tackle real problems. It is a culture of fear, especially since Mark Jacobs was fired.

Oh, he left voluntarily you say? No, he was fired, and everything placed on his shoulders by those closest to him so they could divide his salary and annual bonus. I bet Rob is enjoying that sweet new Maserati he bought after leaving the knife in his partner of 15 years."

http://tagn.wordpress.com/2012/10/12...fter-ea-louse/

http://www.gamerevolution.com/manife...anagement-2803

I won't lie I don't fully trust MJ, but to place the entirety of Warhammer on his shoulders? People are fucking morons.

I'll be in the IT, if the game sucks I'll let you know. I'll let everyone know it sucks even if I cannot go into "details" so I can continue to make sure it either sucks or is a successful game.

While I generally get a good vibe from a lot of their videos, I'm not on board with their stealth one. I really wish they'd have designed a small, non invisibility version of stealth a la camouflage, or maybe looked at Guild Wars 2 implementation for a good alternative, instead of having the Ringwraiths and Shades of Mordor chase you every time you use your Ring of Power to go invisible.

I don't trust MJ either, but I enjoyed DAOC, so I'll keep an eye on this. I think Ut and Denault raise some good points, albeit in a tad personal manner, but I'm not expecting any sort of MMO masterpiece. If it keeps me playing past two months, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Yeah, I've said it before, but perma-invis as a mechanic needs to go. Shit is impossible to balance and a pain in the ass for everyone involved. No reason to fuck up the balance of an entire game just because Timmy Tenth-Grader likes sitting on a bridge with 7 of his best invisible friends 1-shotting everyone who runs past with rez sickness then vanishing as soon as a real fight comes along. It sucked in DAoC, it sucked in WoW, it sucked in WAR, it sucked in GW2 and it's going to suck in CU (have we decided on CU as an acronym?)

Azrayne_sl said:

Yeah, I've said it before, but perma-invis as a mechanic needs to go. Shit is impossible to balance and a pain in the ass for everyone involved. No reason to fuck up the balance of an entire game just because Timmy Tenth-Grader likes sitting on a bridge with 7 of his best invisible friends 1-shotting everyone who runs past with rez sickness then vanishing as soon as a real fight comes along. It sucked in DAoC, it sucked in WoW, it sucked in WAR, it sucked in GW2 and it's going to suck in CU (have we decided on CU as an acronym?)

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This. I've always felt there should be two forms of invisibility. The first would be kind of like what LoL uses a lot--"True stealth" that lasts a very short amount of time, and is restricted in the space and time it can take. It's purpose is to mainly engage (From the more permanent camo) or to disengage. But the only way it's really useful, due to it's heavy restrictions, is for the player to use it in conjunction with Camo--IE he would need to give a lot of tactical thought to WHERE and when he is fighting, not simply "hit ma button, now I'm gonna invis rape you." Instead because of it's small area--if someone sees you use it, and simply backs off, you won't be able to engage until your visible again. (Hence the need to use it from a camouflaged start, so the target doesn't know he needs to exploit stealth weaknesses.)

The second would be camouflage. Unlike "true" stealth, it's got a somewhat big detection range--you wouldn't be able to use it to escape or engage (Because again, big detection--people would see you long before melee) and it would require an "in game" set of environmental conditions...and those conditions would be different depending on your skill set. Like for example, one might be shadows, or another might be trees or brush--or a third might be groups of people (This one is probably a stretch to implement given technology). The way the ability would work is it would be two clicks, the first would highlight areas where your camo would work (Say in large crowd, or under the shadow of a building)--the second would activate it. As long as you remain in the area, it stays working, so you can move around or even go from camo-area to area, with it working.


The main purpose of Camo is to move into, or around enemy groups and wait, without them seeing you while in force. And the main point would be to make movement in the game, within "dangerous" areas, a more tactical decision for both the stealther and the other players. Moving through a crowded market might make you more vulnerable to assassins than an empty street. A dark, shady street at night might have more thieves, than the well lit, main thoroughfare. But the whole pointwouldn'tbe to automatically give the thief the advantage when combat starts---rather it's to let the players play a small game of strategy to see who gets the advantage of initiating the fight. Players that use scouts, avoid certain areas and move in force would diminish the stealther from being able to open with his "true" stealth ability. While players who straggle, or aren't mindful of their surroundings, would wander too close to a camo area alone, and the stealther can use his true stealth to engage with a big advantage.

Mainly, I'd just love stealth to be a more tactical and strategic system, where both the target and the assasin/thief/pick pocket can use the environment and thinking ahead to play a game of cat and mouse. I want those dark alley ways to actually BE ominous and not just look it. Stealth should only be an advantage when it's used intelligently, against someone who made a mistake. It shouldn't be the medieval version of the F117. I know it's a lot easier said than done though--all kinds of considerations, like how "un-fun" it is to wait all day with camo and have no pay off ect--obviously other systems, like having players guard convoys, or NPC's, or something that forces them to move through town or a battle zone, would be needed...But man, if someone did stealth right, it would rock.

That is basically how it works in LoL and WoT at a basic level. LoL especially it is about movement and initiation for the most part (aside from the few stealth characters). In WoT is is about positioning and patience along with some RPGness in the system.

If I can coin a term, "Star Trek" stealth is where things should be moving. What I mean by that is in Star Trek to remain hidden they would do things like power down the ship, hide in nebula and so on. Stealth becomes a game of cat and mouse positioning as well as forcing you to make tough tactical decisions ("Do I keep my weapon systems powered in case? Do I go completely dark and just hope? Can I make it to that nebula before being spotted or should I just try to go dark right here? I suppose you could also call it submarine stealth, the principle is just what you said, a tactical pre-combat mechanic.

Lithose_sl said:

I'd just love stealth to be a more tactical and strategic system, where both the target and the assasin can use the environment and thinking ahead to play a game of cat and mouse. I want those dark alley ways to actually BE ominous and not just look it. Stealth should only be an advantage when it's used intelligently, against someone who made a mistake. It shouldn't be the medieval version of the F117. I know it's a lot easier said than done though--all kinds of considerations, like how "un-fun" it is to wait all day with camo and have no pay off ect--obviously other systems, like having players guard convoys, or NPC's, or something that forces them to move through town or a battle zone, would be needed...But man, if someone did stealth right, it would rock.

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I like the cat and mouse concept, but really that should be doable by world design like you insinuated and not using either a Romulan Cloaking Device or Ring of Power.

I think stealth should never be pure invisibility, ever. Likewise, a camo version shouldn't be invisibility past 10 yards, or to me that's just a lazy implementation.

Have the Frontier landscape have a ton of trees. Perhaps the stealther could stand next to a tree and turn the same color, or in between them and blend in from a distance? Ditto any other inanimate object. If the game has NPC guards, then it shouldn't be too tough for them to use a disguise ability. How fucking cool would it be for a stealth class to morph into a Mimic like Chest and attack someone?

I'd think it wouldn't be too tough to crank up the detection results based on the number of stealthers in proximity to try and limit gank squads, also. Although making them completely solo I think would be squandering some fun tactics.

Really, I'd prefer to see more of a 'Thief' series stealth implemented than anything from any MMO. I think with the limited time and funds, though, it'd be smarter just to get rid of stealth at the beginning, since Crowd Control and it are the two worst design decisions ever placed in any PVP game.

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:

I'm beginning to think Mark Jacobs molested or did something along those lines to Utnayan based upon his posts.

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Actually, Ut has been totally consistent with his praise of Rob Denton and pushing that Jacobs/Firor/rest of Mythic were inept. I'm curious regarding his source. It seems Denton and him are at least friends, if not the same person.

I do find it funny that he's slamming a post by a person who wasn't there, while he's stated that he likewise was not.

Who was that chick who ran the Herald? It'd be amusing if Ut was actually her.

Utnayan_sl said:

Hate MJ stuff..

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If you are going to put all of WAR's failures on MJ then DAoC was great because of MJ. Most people realize that more than one person makes mmo's, and not just one person is responsible for it's success or failure. I'm sure you do to. My guess is you have a secret man love fetish for MJ but he rejected you..

Utnayan_sl said:

This is so utterly and completely false it is retarded. Once Jacobs was gone do you think EA is going to divide his bonus to Rob Denton? (Dude, seriously... read that.) No. They absorbed it while some of it went off to a major severance package with a firm NDA, the company was already fully integrated with EA at this point. What a load of shit. Whoever wrote this is 1) Disgruntled. 2) Full of shit. 3) Both. Oh wait, EA Spouse. That's right. Was it the wife that wasn't there hearing it second hand or was this the actual QA guy that worked there in the first place as a contractor trying to garner web hits? I forgot.

The entire reason WAR sucked was moslty because of Mark Jacobs, but more so his reporting team UNDER HIM. Guess what? It wasn't a team of EA money mongers. The work in fear approach you mentioned happened because of the folks below him, notabove. While the small guys who have great ideas were actually afraid to say anything but "Yes Sir" but I absolutely fucking guarantee you it wasn't because some EA executive popped down the culture. These morons were given tons of cash and a free reign to make a game without ANY oversight what so ever during this time frame, and the same mistake happened with SWTOR. The only time any involvement has happened recently with some other games is due to Franknotgonnaworkherenomore and his must have multiplayer bullshit and forced down cash shop grab microtransactions from John Rotti. (Pun intended) Mark Jacobs knows how to sell an idea. The reason why I dislike him is because that's where it stops and he has zero ethics when it comes to actually delivering on that to the peopple he just fucked out of 50 bucks.

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Quite glad you actually read my post, as usual people just respond with rage instantly without actually reading.

No, I did not mean EA SPOUSE. If I had meant EA SPOUSE I would have put EA SPOUSE but I didn't. EA LOUSE was a response by an actual person who worked in a mid tier position on WARHAMMER ONLINE, NOT DAOC, to EA SPOUSE.

I also didn't say Mark Jacobs is absolved of fucking Warhammer in the ass, was it all his fault? I don't think so. Your crazy if you think EA wasn't pushing for them to just launch the game to get box sales, just like how Bioware decided to launch SWTOR a few days before Christmas but you know it wasn't due to EA or anything they just decided the game was ready!

It was pretty obvious to me before EA LOUSE even posted his blog on wordpress, which no longer exists because he called SWTOR failing before it came out and 10000 SWTOR fanbois came in and cried, That MJ had been fired and basically sold up the river by the rest of the higher ups, all people "close" to him, so they could keep their shit jobs and merge with Bioware to make shit SWTOR. I imagine the video is still out there but I'm not going to fucking look for it where MJ announces hes leaving the company and how you know the company just isn't going in the direction that he wanted anymore. Bunch of PR lingo that basically meant hey I've been fired as head of the company because somebody has to take the blame for this shit.

I don't know shit about the production of DAOC so I can't comment there nor did I in my original post.

Your right they probably didn't divide up MJ's salary and bonus, but it doesn't matter he got sold up the river so people like Paul Barnett the ultimate piece of shit could still and STILL DO have a job by the way.

How can this guy who called his playerbase dumb to their face be the head of Bioware now?
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...deos/play/1392
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ba...game_designer)

C'mon man, at least tell me you'reKilroy!

On a side note, why I like the CU videos, I really hate their kickstarter campaign. Their tiers are such a crappy design, I wonder if they spent 20 minutes inventing and bundling this garbage.

Pledge $1,250 or more

47 backers Limited (53 of 100 left)

BSC COLLECTOR'S EDITION - PHYSICAL REWARDS ============================== With this non-repeatable, limited tier the PLEDGE OWNER receives all the HANDILY DONE rewards and THESE UPGRADES: an ADDITIONAL 250 FOUNDER'S POINTS (400 total) + THREE-YEAR SUBSCRIPTION renewable, after three years, for $1 per year + INTERNAL TESTING ACCESS (testing requirement waived) + BETA INVITES UPGRADED TO FIVE AND TOTAL NUMBER OF CHARACTER SLOTS AT LAUNCH UPGRADED BY FIVE + a FOUNDER'S STATUE will be placed with your name on it in Founder's Row + INTERNAL BETA LIST FOR ALL FUTURE CAMELOT UNCHAINED EXPANSION PACKS (which you also receive free). Best of all, you will receive a HAND-PAINTED (BY THE CSE TEAM) MINIATURE of a Camelot Unchained race of your choice from the game. The pledge owner also receives THREE DIGITAL COPIES OF THE GAME (these copies can be REDEEMED AT THE HERO LEVEL ONLY). This package will not be available after release. Estimated delivery of Internal Testing Access: January 2014.

Estimated delivery: Dec 2015
Add $25 to ship outside the US

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If someone donates $1250, they should be staying in Mark Jacobs house for a week and get an inside fucking tour of their dink studio every day that week. Just my opinion. Oh, and the dipshits at City State should spend the 25 to ship to Canada and Europe seeing how they have banked that much coin over two years in advance...

Redtah_sl said:

Quite glad you actually read my post, as usual people just respond with rage instantly without actually reading.

No, I did not mean EA SPOUSE. If I had meant EA SPOUSE I would have put EA SPOUSE but I didn't. EA LOUSE was a response by an actual person who worked in a mid tier position on WARHAMMER ONLINE, NOT DAOC, to EA SPOUSE.

I also didn't say Mark Jacobs is absolved of fucking Warhammer in the ass, was it all his fault? I don't think so. Your crazy if you think EA wasn't pushing for them to just launch the game to get box sales, just like how Bioware decided to launch SWTOR a few days before Christmas but you know it wasn't due to EA or anything they just decided the game was ready!

It was pretty obvious to me before EA LOUSE even posted his blog on wordpress, which no longer exists because he called SWTOR failing before it came out and 10000 SWTOR fanbois came in and cried, That MJ had been fired and basically sold up the river by the rest of the higher ups, all people "close" to him, so they could keep their shit jobs and merge with Bioware to make shit SWTOR. I imagine the video is still out there but I'm not going to fucking look for it where MJ announces hes leaving the company and how you know the company just isn't going in the direction that he wanted anymore. Bunch of PR lingo that basically meant hey I've been fired as head of the company because somebody has to take the blame for this shit.

I don't know shit about the production of DAOC so I can't comment there nor did I in my original post.

Your right they probably didn't divide up MJ's salary and bonus, but it doesn't matter he got sold up the river so people like Paul Barnett the ultimate piece of shit could still and STILL DO have a job by the way.

How can this guy who called his playerbase dumb to their face be the head of Bioware now?
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...deos/play/1392
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ba...game_designer)

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haha. wtf. what a stupid interview.

"First thing players do is fight the interface!"
dude... you must be pretty shitty if players have to fight the interface. you are blaming the players for that?
Seriously, how do these assholes keep getting jobs? Oh right, gamers don't care. they will just keep giving them money.

Utnayan_sl said:

I think we could do that. Let's see how much cash we could raise too.

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Let's do it. We already know what we want/don't want.