Captain America: Civil War (2016)

Technically the abomination was created by that dude who became Leader. Ross just opened the door.

Homsar_sl said:

This is still the Ross that created abomination and was the reason the city got fucked up until Norton/Banner saved it

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I didn't know the Norton Hulk movies were a part of current marvel movie universe cannon.

Interesting.

There was just one movie with Norton, The Incredible Hulk. RDJ had a cameo at the end. It came out in 2008, same year as IM1.

Vvoid_sl said:

I was more nerd-offended by the fact that Sexy Witch dropped a bunch of cars on him and seemed to do some damage ("multiple contusions"). Pretty sure Thor and Hulk hit a lot harder than any of those cars did. Free-falling out of the sky with no power I can actually believe him getting hurt though. Even if the suit cushions you, it isn't going to protect you from your leg going up behind your head, etc.

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Why doesn't sexy witch just rip the suit off him? Nicely of course.

Leadsalad_sl said:

Why doesn't sexy witch just rip the suit off him? Nicely of course.

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Don't go down that hole. Otherwise she could've just sent them all into orbit or held them in place while everyone else escaped. She didn't do that cuz big movie fight.

TJT_sl said:

Saw this last night finally. Spiderman was awesome. Movie was awesome.

My only gripe was that it was kind of silly that Tony nerd raged on Bucky despite knowing he was hardcore brainwashed to the extent of outright calling him "The Manchurian Candidate." Who was a Soviet brainwashed assassin. That and the whole Civil War portion should have cooled down after Captain was proven right anyway. But I guess it is... just the Accords are still inbetween them.

Nerd uh, rant if you will? I totally get that something like the Accords would 100% be created if the Avengers were real in any way. But I wondered how well it would work to throw the destruction they caused against them. Like New York, look at all the damage you caused!? Well the alternative was to have the entire world invaded by aliens. Or Hydra kill everyone with the Shield Airships... Or Ultron create an extinction event. People are crazy.

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Cap wasn't really right though. Cap lied to everyone and didn't share any info with them.

I do wish they had created more examples of damage. cause yeah, new york, washington? was very clearly them trying to stop damage. Ultron, yes was ultimately "their fault". 50% of this movies damage/deaths were also, their fault.

anyway also just saw. Largely enjoyed it. But, not as much as most of you seem.

Alot of cameos and nerd candy. But, I feel like the storyline was a major letdown, with no resolution. Cap 2, was a much more effective thriller, imho. This felt like half a story, with lots of over the top action fight sequences, to me.

Opening sequence. cap takes out like 3 people, falcon 2, wanda+falc 1.. then Black widow takes out 7 people by herself. really, makes you wonder if they will address her having super serum at some point.

Both cap and Tony's opinions were nuanced enough that they were both right, and both wrong. Tony was dead on when he said they need to be kept in check. They do. Cap was dead on when he said that they would be kept in check by people with political agendas. They would be.

While I think zemos plan was a little clairvoyant, but he knew how to make the team turn against itself. I kept thinking, this is how you pit two superheroes against each other, BvS.

Someone mentioned a few pages back about hawkeye and his motivation being flimsy. It was and it wasn't. Why did he pick cap's side? Because cap was the one who called first. But, hawkeye has always respected cap more than Stark and he feels guilty about quicksilver so of course he's going to pick the side Wanda is on.

I don't really see it tho. If the Avengers wouldn't have stopped the invasion in New York the world would have been over.

If they wouldn't have taken Loki's staff ,and stopped Strucker he would have built an army that they wouldn't have enough super powers to destroy..

Ultimately that turned to Tony building Ultron, but on the other side it also Built Vision who would protect the mind gem from Thanos, or anyone that works for him to easily get.

For the casualties they caused they also saved the world many times.
Government should never run Super Powered individuals ,or it turns into an arms race.

Now with the Hulk we get into a grey area because he clearly is not in control of himself. He should never be allowed into the Avengers, but they needed him because of how powerful he is.

With Vision tho, the Hulk isn't as necessary.

Xevy_sl said:

Don't go down that hole. Otherwise she could've just sent them all into orbit or held them in place while everyone else escaped. She didn't do that cuz big movie fight.

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Well, she sent Vision down a hole. *ba-dum, tsssss*

My head canon says Clint sees Wanda as a little sister since she lost her brother. So Cap could have called and asked Clint to join and help, but he asked him to rescue Wanda instead, knowing that he'd stay afterward.

PFFT this all a ploy so Clint can start the West Coat Avengers, also known as the Best Avengers!

Column_sl said:

I don't really see it tho. If the Avengers wouldn't have stopped the invasion in New York the world would have been over.

If they wouldn't have taken Loki's staff ,and stopped Strucker he would have built an army that they wouldn't have enough super powers to destroy..

Ultimately that turned to Tony building Ultron, but on the other side it also Built Vision who would protect the mind gem from Thanos, or anyone that works for him to easily get.

For the casualties they caused they also saved the world many times.
Government should never run Super Powered individuals ,or it turns into an arms race.

Now with the Hulk we get into a grey area because he clearly is not in control of himself. He should never be allowed into the Avengers, but they needed him because of how powerful he is.

With Vision tho, the Hulk isn't as necessary.

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Wait a minute, so you're saying that it doesn't make sense that the government wants oversight of sentient weapons of mass destruction and will use hyperbole to get that oversight?

It makes perfect sense why weak humans would want to control evolved humans.

They see them as only a threat, and only as weapons. You yourself only see them as weapons given that above statement.

There is no way to put them in Check no matter what we do, and we only make things worse.

SHIELD was formed specifically because of this situation. It was the only thing that was protecting us, and was destroyed because they made the mistake of gaining Hydra scientists as allies.

I was quoting the movie, Ross compares Thor and hulk to nukes.

I'm just saying both of their viewpoints are valid, but ultimately flawed

In all fairness, only like ~3 of the avengers are more than just badass military people. Iron Man? All gear. War Machine? Gear. Falcon? Gear. Ant Man? Gear. Cap? SuperISH. Widow? Top spy. Hawkeye? Top soldier.

Witch/Vision/Thor/Hulk are the only ones that they'd have to figure out accords for. The others you just take away their toys. Having the Avengers run by an agency would be terrible since most of these people are only special because of their equipment/training, so they'd eventually just ask to make more of the same gear or train more people. Then you start having problems when you have a whole legion of one-man-army types, especially with international agendas.

5 now, Spider-Man!, but yeah Spider-man cant level a city.

Really neither can Thor imo because he has to be moral just to wield the hammer.


Vision, Witch, and Hulk can end everything.

TJT_sl said:

Nerd uh, rant if you will? I totally get that something like the Accords would 100% be created if the Avengers were real in any way. But I wondered how well it would work to throw the destruction they caused against them. Like New York, look at all the damage you caused!? Well the alternative was to have the entire world invaded by aliens. Or Hydra kill everyone with the Shield Airships... Or Ultron create an extinction event. People are crazy.

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Well, two things. One, yeah, people are assholes. Look at every time throughout history where the U.S. intervened in a terrible situation and made it only a 'bad' situation--inevitably people blamed the U.S. for the bad situation without accounting for how bad it would have been otherwise. This is one reason why State actors are so loathe to interfere in terrible things around the world, the moment you touch something it becomes your responsibility, while if you just watch it burn, you're free of that. People are giant assholes, basically and most people are really too stupid to think in complex relative terms, they see bad, they see your symbol, and you are instantly the causal reason for badness. (Just like people always associate their bias, with whatever is happening to them).

But the big thing though is Ultron, after watching this I really see why they made Averngers 2 about Ultron (Seemed like an odd story to pluck out for the second film.)...They did it because Ultron was a product of the Avengers--he was their fault. An evil Nazi organization had the mind stone for months and did very little with it, the Avengers had the mind stone for a couple days and created an AI that very nearly destroyed the world. And that was the big thing, Ultron very nearly ended all sentient life on earth; and he was purely the fault of the Avengers, without the Avengers, Ultron does not happen.

Column_sl said:

Ultimately that turned to Tony building Ultron, but on the other side it also Built Vision who would protect the mind gem from Thanos, or anyone that works for him to easily get.

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A private organization creates an AI that attempts, and almost succeeds in destroying the entire world, kills hundreds of people in the process and destroys an entire city, but it's all good because he created Vision (To combat an entity the world doesn't even know about?)

You guys are being silly if you don't believe it is absolutely a reaosnable reaction for the world to question wtf is going on with Avengers after Ultron. Even if we discount humans generally being ignorant and blaming the biggest symbol (Even if they are actually helping keep the situation going from bad to awful)...In this case, someone who was completely rational and reasonable, and really knew all the evidence should come to the conclusion that the Avengers are very very dangerous, and there are no checks or balances to their power. Tony alone could probably take on most national armies outside the U.S. and major powers, and he doesn't have a quarter of the checks a standard military does.

Plus, as we saw at the start of the film, it's obvious the Avengers aren't just tackling 'life ending' events or big things...They are pretty much also an anti-terrorist organization. A U.S. based, heavily armed, special forces contingent that enters sovereign countries to hunt down terrorists. And people have died during their operations--this is a pretty clear metaphor for U.S. drone/special forces actions, which involve civilian casualties, and the world regularly goes ape shit over that stuff. But that's the most powerful nation on earth doing it, with defacto security council support (Thanks Veto) and UN acquiescence, as well as domestic checks and balance (sometimes lacking).

The Avengers are...a private organization, totally, 100% private. Is it really likely people are just going to be like 'he created vision--good guy, that Tony." lol....

should also be noted in Avengers 1, they were acting as concerned citizens, not a paramilitary force. A big difference between just helping out(avengers), being consultants/contractors for SHIELD(cap 2), and then finally their own independent military force(avengers 2 and here).


Much of that is not really relevant. Cap being right or wrong about all that is frankly beside the point of what actually happened. the entire world had evidence of Bucky blowing up the Embassy. Cap had evidence he was innocent, and told no one. Refused to come in, brief, turn over that info at all. Despite being pleaded with repeatedly. ZEMO himself, was the one that had to turn over evidence of his bullshit, to get Tony to follow him. the plot was not actually about registration. it was about Bucky being a terrorist.