Crowfall

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Vitality

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I've never seen them done correctly. I didn't play AO or SWG but I did play most other major MMO's. Pets either end up being way to powerful or way to buggy/lame. My thoughts on this game are it is just going to add to the lag PVP brings. Now when you have a 50 on 50 battle, it's relaly 100 on 100. That seems awful to me but maybe I am just being a curmudgeon.
Can I get an example? I'm genuinely interested.

Pet pathing and voxel interaction could prove to be troublesome. Won't know til we see it though.

Either way the functionality is already being modularized into the game via the mount system. Because the mounts act as combat pets, fighting and pathing etc.
 

Tuco

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I'd also like to see what you mean by done correctly.

My thought is they should avoid a lot of the challenges and frustrations with pets and just cheat. Add a basic pathing algorithm and then make pets be able to teleport when they get stuck. Make pets completely immune to AE damage. Make it so that pets don't break CC and don't aggro mobs.

The trade off for the player deciding whether they want a pet or not shouldn't be a question of whether they want to deal with the hassle, risk and micromanagement of a pet, but rather whether they want to take the hit in their own characters power-level to be able to use a pet. A good comparison is the hunter in WoW that could either spec into Beast Mastery or Marksmanship. In different iterations of WoW the balance between them changed but the general idea was consistent: you only had so many points to use and if you didn't put a lot into BM your pet wasn't that great. If you put them into BM your character's damage wasn't as high.

Want to be a good combat pet owner in CF? Well you'll need to use your talent point allocation for it, get a rune for beast mastery and also go find a rare pet spawn to use. Then you'll need to train that pet up. But once you do that, IMO, you should always feel rewarded by using your pet rather than worrying about it being insta-gibbed in AE, pulling aggro, breaking mez etc.
 

Tuco

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I also hope that pet summoning (elementals, demonic) is in one or two disciplines along with charming.
 

Arcaus_sl

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Can I get an example? I'm genuinely interested.
Warhammer Online - If your pet got stuck on a twig they didn't do anything until you unsummoned them and resummoned. They would get obliterated by AOE's.

EQ - Beastmaster pets were able to main tank for groups while putting out arguably better DPS then some classes could at certain points. In the PoP era my Chanter used to charm pets that would out DPS literally half a raid worth of people.

Final Fantasy the Afterbirth - pets were the most frustrating part of the game. Your chocobo was a mount/fighting pet only it would randomly die to stuff even after you specced it full tank.

Rift - Remember the healing pet? That thing needed to be micromanaged more then some of my employees after they come back from smoking a blunt at lunch.

I don't know that I have ever tried a pet class where the pet wasn't either so amazing you felt like you were doing nothing but buffing them or the pet was such a hindrance that you almost didn't bother summoning them.
 

Vitality

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@Arcaus I feel with that line of thinking, the only game that will have suitably balanced pet classes as a whole is one you make yourself. EQ Pets are powerful sure, but they function correctly and don't add much to server stability issues.
 

Vitality

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Not everyone can tame them/capture them, but everyone can use them. It's a clicky from what I've read.
Right and they defend themselves and path and what not basically a fundamental combat pet. Likely modifyable with certain disciplines. So everyone does get a pet by default in some fundamental form. In response to Teekey.
 

Draegan_sl

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Are you saying that CF will be better than ESO and ArcheAge? If you're wrong fuck this gay world.
The only thing good about AA is the naval combat if you can find people to fight. Outside that, it's pretty normal open world pvp with tab target combat.
 

Tuco

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I wouldn't mind seeing non-combat disciplines for stealth, runspeed, scouting and 'mount usage' or something.

So you could have an class that takes mount usage and scouting (stealth detection, radar, far sight etc) and would be the SR-71 of scouts. Nobody could catch them and they could see you before you can see them. But once the fight starts they can't do much.

That's kind of how I felt when scouting as a dagger-elementalist in GW2. I could stand there and watch a force and as soon as one of them made a move I'd pop my runspeed cooldowns and ride the lightning out of their sight range. I spent a lot of time ensuring two enemy forces combat each other while our main force took advantage of it.
 

Vitality

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I wouldn't mind seeing non-combat disciplines for stealth, runspeed, scouting and 'mount usage' or something.

So you could have an class that takes mount usage and scouting (stealth detection, radar, far sight etc) and would be the SR-71 of scouts. Nobody could catch them and they could see you before you can see them. But once the fight starts they can't do much.

That's kind of how I felt when scouting as a dagger-elementalist in GW2. I could stand there and watch a force and as soon as one of them made a move I'd pop my runspeed cooldowns and ride the lightning out of their sight range.
From the KS update #15 on riding skill as part of the mount (husbandry?) discipline

Can players use creatures higher than their riding skill allows?

No. The riding skill determines which mounts you can ride, as well as mount speed.
 

Teekey

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Yeah, Disciplines should be used for specialization. Even things like Pets should be specialized. Perhaps they're strong against backline squishies, but not nearly as good against Armored frontline.
 

Draegan_sl

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I can't believe that some archetypes wouldn't have access to riding skill other than centaurs. I'm sure it's a skill you have to passively train to get the most out of. Like EVE and ships? Guess work though.
 

Vitality

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Yeah I'd imagine there's a general skill (archetype based) and then a more advanced skill in the mount crafting discipline.

Would be sweet to take a rune at character creation that says "You don't gain riding skill" and adds a base movement speed modifier that's a bit worse than mounted speed. *main benefit would be that you always have that move speed but can't use mounts
 

Tuco

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From the KS update #15 on riding skill as part of the mount (husbandry?) discipline

Can players use creatures higher than their riding skill allows?

No. The riding skill determines which mounts you can ride, as well as mount speed.
I just assume that all useful skills will be soft-capped after the first campaign so it's not terribly meaningful.

I also agree with Draegan that all non-centaurs should be able to mount. I'd just want to see a discipline/rune that increases mount speed.
 

Tuco

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Oh and I think the Rune thing is lame, but I'd want to wait till I see the options before passing final judgement. I remember a similar system in daggerfall:
Daggerfall:ClassMaker - UESPWiki
[edit] Special Advantages

Special advantages give the class extra abilities. Adding special advantages to a class increases Skill Advancement difficulty. You can select a maximum of seven special advantages.

Some advantages work only in certain places. Many have the options "In Darkness", "In Light", and "In Water". "In Darkness" means that the advantage will work only in dungeons and at night. "In Light" means that the advantage works only in daylight or buildings that are well-lit.

Acute Hearing - Allows the player character to hear sounds from farther away.
Adrenaline Rush - When low on health, gain bonuses to some combat-related attributes.
Athleticism - Stamina decreases slower when running, jumping, climbing, and swimming.
Bonus to Hit - Increases accuracy and damage against certain monsters. Note that if you have a bonus to hit a monster, you may not have a phobia of the same monster.
Animals
Daedra
Humanoid
Undead
Expertise In - Increases accuracy and damage with a certain weapon. Note that if you have this advantage, you may not have the disadvantage "Forbidden Weaponry" for the same weapon.
Axe
Blunt Weapon
Hand to Hand
Long Blade
Missile Weapon
Short Blade
Immunity - Allows the player to become immune to the selected element or status effect. Note that the class would not be able to choose the similar "resistance", "critical weakness", or "low tolerance" advantage/disadvantage.
Disease
Fire
Frost
Magic
Paralysis
Poison
Shock
Increased Magery - This increases the amount of magicka the player has. Essential for magic users, since by default Spell Points are only at 0.5x Int.
1.5x Int in Spell Points
1.75x Int in Spell Points
2x Int in Spell Points
3x Int in Spell Points
Int in Spell Points
Rapid Healing - This allows the player to increase the rate he/she heals while resting.
General
In Darkness
In Light
Regenerate Health - Allows the player to slowly regenerate health. (15 HP/hour)
General
Darkness
Light
While Immersed in Water
Resistance - Allows the player to resist the selected element/status effect. Note that the class would not be able to choose the similar "immunity", "critical weakness", or "low tolerance" advantage/disadvantage.
Disease
Fire
Frost
Magic
Paralysis
Poison
Shock
Spell Absorption - Allows the player character to sometimes absorb spells, adding it to their own magicka. The chance of this is equal to (INT+WIL)/2. Spells absorbed over the player character's maximum magicka cause damage.
General
Darkness
Light

[edit] Special Disadvantages

Special disadvantages impose restrictions on the class. Special disadvantages lower the Skill Advancement difficulty. You can select a maximum of seven special disadvantages. Some disadvantages work only in certain places. Many have the options "In Darkness", "In Light", and "In Water". "In Darkness" means that the disadvantage will work only in dungeons and at night. "In Light" means that the disadvantage works only in daylight or buildings that are well-lit. Any advantages you have from your race or vampirism will override your potential weaknesses. So High Elves, who are immune to paralysis, could take a critical weakness to paralysis and remain immune.

Critical Weakness - Makes the player very vulnerable to the selected element/status effect. Note that the class would not be able to choose the similar "resistance", "immunity", or "low tolerance" advantage/disadvantage.
Disease
Fire
Frost
Magic
Paralysis
Poison
Shock
Damage - The player suffers 12 HP damage per 4 in-game minutes in certain places
From Holy Places (Temples and guildhalls of the Fighter Trainers)
From Sunlight
Darkness Powered Magery - This hinders the player's magic ability during the day.
Lower Magic Ability in Daylight (This decreases the maximum amount of Magicka)
Unable to Use Magic in Daylight
Forbidden Armor Types - Makes it impossible to wear certain armor. They can still be carried in the inventory.
Chain
Leather
Plate (Iron, Steel, Silver, Elven, Dwarven, Mithril, Adamantium, Orcish, Ebony, and Daedric armor)
Forbidden Material - This forbids the player character from wearing armor and weapons of the selected material. They can still be carried in the inventory.
Adamantium
Daedric
Dwarven
Ebony
Elven
Iron
Mithril
Orcish
Silver
Steel
Forbidden Shield Types - The player character can't use shields of this type. They can still be carried in the inventory
Buckler
Kite Shield
Round Shield
Tower Shield
Forbidden Weaponry - The player character can't use weapons of this type. They can still be carried in the inventory.
Axe
Blunt Weapon
Hand to Hand
Long Blade
Missile Weapon
Short Blade
Inability to Regen Spell Points - The class cannot regenerate spell points while resting.
Light Powered Magery - This hinders the player's magic ability during the night and in dungeons.
Lower Magic Ability in Darkness (Decreases the maximum magicka.)
Unable to Use Magic in Darkness
Low Tolerance - Causes the player to be slightly weak to selected elements/status effects. Note that the class would not be able to choose the similar "resistance", "critical weakness", or "immunity" advantage/disadvantage.
Disease
Fire
Frost
Magic
Paralysis
Poison
Shock
Phobia - Decreases the damage and the accuracy against the selected type of enemy, while that enemy will have an easier time attacking the player character. Note that if you have a phobia against a certain type of monster, you may not take the "Bonus To-Hit" advantage for that same monster.
Animal
Daedra
Humanoid
Undead

It's fun in singleplayer games that aren't meant to be balanced, but I feel like if it's at all powerful you'll have min/maxers like this fine community who make characters with +20% DPS/health but are afraid of cripples, allgeric to food with only one vowel and can only shit twice a week.
 

Vitality

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That's the best part though.
For sure dude, I'm going to sacrifice as much as possible to up my manipulation game.

If I have to reduce movement speed by 50% and lose a leg on my Guinea just so I can have +10% to something manipulation related I'm going to do it. I'm never leaving my hole anyways.

Something like: One Legged - Reduce Movement Speed by 50% - Gain +5 slots to chest capacity.

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