Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,485
- 73,569
No. I usually tell people not to buy into these things. But I think the marketing intent of the # of backers and the low entry price is geared toward social marketing.
Crowfall
- Thread starter Kharza-kzad_sl
- Start date
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 3,644
- -6,335
Crowfall Interview - MMORPG + Strategy - Worlds Factory
Thought people here would like this answer, since I've seen similar suggestions thrown around:
Thought people here would like this answer, since I've seen similar suggestions thrown around:
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,485
- 73,569
I like leaderboards but I'm always very apprehensive about them. I think they're focusing on leaderboards for guilds and some kind of multi-campaign tournament rather than player leaderboards here, but let me whine about player-level leaderboards for a bit.
I like sandbox PvP games because you create an environment for players to achieve some goal, usually increasing wealth, and then players have to compete and work together to achieve that goal. Increasing wealth is often done in natural and intuitive ways like farming high value mobs or operating Irondick Mine. Players strategize toward maximizing their wealth generation and the gameplay evolves from that.
When you add a leaderboard system the typical design is to award players participation points. Kill a player get 10 points. Help kill a player get 1 point. Help take a keep get 100 points. Guard a caravan earn 20 points, etc. This causes the player to strategize around earning these points and the gameplay evolves from that.
I dislike this for a few reasons:
1. It focuses the player on these nebulous and artificial point systems that have no natural basis. Someone who cared about immersion would call it an immersion killer.
2. It often evolves gameplay that is as artificial as the point system. You're no longer trying to hold onto Irondick mine long enough for a huge payout. You're not guarding that payout as you make your way to the city with your warpigthing.
Instead you're joining a huge zerg vs zerg bloodbathe with no real goal because prolonged fights happen to generate good amount of points. Or you're joining a huge zerg that is rotating around the map pvdooring keeps that no one gives a shit about and have no strategic value. Meanwhile another zerg is doing the same thing and you couldn't care less.
3. It creates annoying problems when leading a guild because I have to choose between organizing the members to maximize their point earning, or organize them to increase map ownership or complete objectives. In ESO we would have regular raids where we'd ruck up and completely change the face of the map we were on. There'd usually be some 5 or so poop sockers trying to get Emperor who would be our best and most active players. I'd tell them to ignore our raids and continue farming honor in whatever stategically useless way was most efficient.
Oh and a tangent, they came out with Arena leaderboard in ArcheAge, which means that all the best PvPers will be in instances dueling each other instead of PvPing in the world.
I like sandbox PvP games because you create an environment for players to achieve some goal, usually increasing wealth, and then players have to compete and work together to achieve that goal. Increasing wealth is often done in natural and intuitive ways like farming high value mobs or operating Irondick Mine. Players strategize toward maximizing their wealth generation and the gameplay evolves from that.
When you add a leaderboard system the typical design is to award players participation points. Kill a player get 10 points. Help kill a player get 1 point. Help take a keep get 100 points. Guard a caravan earn 20 points, etc. This causes the player to strategize around earning these points and the gameplay evolves from that.
I dislike this for a few reasons:
1. It focuses the player on these nebulous and artificial point systems that have no natural basis. Someone who cared about immersion would call it an immersion killer.
2. It often evolves gameplay that is as artificial as the point system. You're no longer trying to hold onto Irondick mine long enough for a huge payout. You're not guarding that payout as you make your way to the city with your warpigthing.
Instead you're joining a huge zerg vs zerg bloodbathe with no real goal because prolonged fights happen to generate good amount of points. Or you're joining a huge zerg that is rotating around the map pvdooring keeps that no one gives a shit about and have no strategic value. Meanwhile another zerg is doing the same thing and you couldn't care less.
3. It creates annoying problems when leading a guild because I have to choose between organizing the members to maximize their point earning, or organize them to increase map ownership or complete objectives. In ESO we would have regular raids where we'd ruck up and completely change the face of the map we were on. There'd usually be some 5 or so poop sockers trying to get Emperor who would be our best and most active players. I'd tell them to ignore our raids and continue farming honor in whatever stategically useless way was most efficient.
Oh and a tangent, they came out with Arena leaderboard in ArcheAge, which means that all the best PvPers will be in instances dueling each other instead of PvPing in the world.
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
- 5,808
- 30
Tuco as a counter point to your general statement on leaderboards:
If a gameworld is not persistent (like the core design behind campaigns in crowfall) Persistence in stats and character progression is needed at a fundamental level.
How much would you have cared about crowning the first king in TESO if it had not been tracked or announced to the server in some way?
Leaderboards are Nameplates fundamentally in this game type.
---
My major point in reference to EK and tournaments is this: Keep the individual players namesake out of instanced PVP, it will detract from campaign activity largely as far as leaderboard building potential goes.
Do a guild Best of the Best as stated and announce winners for each round world wide. That's enough of a hook for guilds to participate competitively.
If a gameworld is not persistent (like the core design behind campaigns in crowfall) Persistence in stats and character progression is needed at a fundamental level.
How much would you have cared about crowning the first king in TESO if it had not been tracked or announced to the server in some way?
Leaderboards are Nameplates fundamentally in this game type.
---
My major point in reference to EK and tournaments is this: Keep the individual players namesake out of instanced PVP, it will detract from campaign activity largely as far as leaderboard building potential goes.
Do a guild Best of the Best as stated and announce winners for each round world wide. That's enough of a hook for guilds to participate competitively.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,485
- 73,569
Ironically nobody gave two shits that we got the first world-wide Emperor in ESO because it was a worthless victory.
I think this community is way too focused on what happens outside the campaigns. The devs need to be focused on creating a game where playing the campaigns is fun and engaging and repeating that 'release day gameplay' is genuinely fun. Putting a layer of bullshit on top of that to reward players for success will be easy.
I think this community is way too focused on what happens outside the campaigns. The devs need to be focused on creating a game where playing the campaigns is fun and engaging and repeating that 'release day gameplay' is genuinely fun. Putting a layer of bullshit on top of that to reward players for success will be easy.
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
- 5,808
- 30
On combat: in the videos the camera moves and then the character pivot steps and starts running towards the center of the cam a second or two after the input.
That's my observation. We'll see how it works out. People are going to complain if the delay on pivot stepping is too long or creates wonky character nav situations.
I personally don't care too much because the core game to me is community manipulation.
--
Tuco you're right, they definitely need to stay focused on campaigns right now. Everything outside of that is just a distraction and a waste of initial resources.
That's my observation. We'll see how it works out. People are going to complain if the delay on pivot stepping is too long or creates wonky character nav situations.
I personally don't care too much because the core game to me is community manipulation.
--
Tuco you're right, they definitely need to stay focused on campaigns right now. Everything outside of that is just a distraction and a waste of initial resources.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,485
- 73,569
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 3,644
- -6,335
Crowfall - Throne War PC MMO by ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. Kickstarter
15,500 - Backer Reward: All-Father Statue RELIC
...at 15,500 backers, we're going to convert that All Father statue (that we granted back at 12k backers) into a Relic! This means the statue will now be more than a cosmetic prop to add to your Kingdom -- now, it will offer a Blessing of Knowledge (+1% training of combat skills!) to the land owner and all of the tenants of the parcel in which it is placed.
$1.6 million Stretch Reward: Tournament System Campaign
Tournaments! We will add a single-elimination Tournament ladder for guilds to compete on a annual (or bi-annual) basis. Guilds will have to win a Campaign to qualify, at which point they will be pitted against each other in a single elimination, winner-take-all Tournament to take home the Dragon Throne -- an Artifact which benefits everyone in the Kingdom -- and which shows, without question, which Guild is the best.
$1.7 million Stretch Reward: Combat-enabled Pets!
Tame wild creatures to act as your companion, and craft magical figurines to summon to them to your aid! These Combat-ready pets are built as an extension to the mounts system, and will be useful for ALL archetypes -- they are not limited to a particular class or playstyle!
15,500 - Backer Reward: All-Father Statue RELIC
...at 15,500 backers, we're going to convert that All Father statue (that we granted back at 12k backers) into a Relic! This means the statue will now be more than a cosmetic prop to add to your Kingdom -- now, it will offer a Blessing of Knowledge (+1% training of combat skills!) to the land owner and all of the tenants of the parcel in which it is placed.
$1.6 million Stretch Reward: Tournament System Campaign
Tournaments! We will add a single-elimination Tournament ladder for guilds to compete on a annual (or bi-annual) basis. Guilds will have to win a Campaign to qualify, at which point they will be pitted against each other in a single elimination, winner-take-all Tournament to take home the Dragon Throne -- an Artifact which benefits everyone in the Kingdom -- and which shows, without question, which Guild is the best.
$1.7 million Stretch Reward: Combat-enabled Pets!
Tame wild creatures to act as your companion, and craft magical figurines to summon to them to your aid! These Combat-ready pets are built as an extension to the mounts system, and will be useful for ALL archetypes -- they are not limited to a particular class or playstyle!
I like those goals. And Tuco is right about the point system. It's hard to balance but I think it's necessary in some fashion for this game. Competitive games need a score board and not just w/l for campaigns that you'll be in 3 or 5 a year.
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
- 5,808
- 30
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
- 5,808
- 30
Nothing is better than Red99 right now. In my opinion. I've got some plat with your name on it if you want to come hang tuco!
PS: I'm mostly just fuckin around about sabotoging you. I'll be looking to be in good standing with PRX in some form (if I don't join the ranks). Idk.. Really depends on if you guys slow roll the CF release or not.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,485
- 73,569
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 3,644
- -6,335
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
- 5,808
- 30
Pretty blanket statement, what games are you basing this opinion on?
My opinion of successful combat pet class games - Anarchy Online - Starwars Galaxies - Everquest Red - Portions of the original Planetside (combat deployables) - DAOC etc.
I've never seen them done correctly. I didn't play AO or SWG but I did play most other major MMO's. Pets either end up being way to powerful or way to buggy/lame. My thoughts on this game are it is just going to add to the lag PVP brings. Now when you have a 50 on 50 battle, it's really 100 on 100. That seems awful to me but maybe I am just being a curmudgeon.