Crowfall

Woolygimp

Woolygimp

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Well you've been posting here for quite a while. Korean games come out without much depth, but they're usually pretty beautiful, with great art, and animations. I personally hate most of the style (especially all of the little children and midget people with dog ears), but I do have to admit that the animations and implementation are top notch.

I have to wonder if the reason doesn't involve East vs West work ethos. I envision see Koreans slaving all day to put out a game, because if they don't they're dishonored. And I could see developers from the West sitting around playing flash games, taking a pizza break five times a day with the occasional nap, and when 3pm rolls around they're out the door. That's literally what they were doing in some of the Camelot Unleashed PR videos.

Is that even remotely true though? Where I live, I have absolutely no contact with game developers nor do I attend any conventions. If not, what other reason is there for such a huge discrepancy between quality? If Koreans could just put a little more depth in their games and get someone besides NCSoft to publish...
 
K

Kharza-kzad_sl

shitlord
1,080
0
I've often thought about the strengths and weaknesses of east and west. When I was at NCSoft we had a couple Korean guys making the character models. The women everyone loved but the male models were a bit too skinny and feminine looking.

Overall though if I think of games where characters look great, they are almost all eastern. I've still never seen a western game animate as well as the soul calibur series. The rigs in that were absolutely flawless, and it is a shame they don't share whatever dark magic they used to make that happen at a GDC or something.

Eastern stuff is also fantastic at low poly world art. Lots of little details everywhere.

The west has the engineering. We know how to pathfind properly, and how to move things around on maps that aren't a big flat plane with no obstacles. I think so many of the strange game mechanics that come out of the east mostly arose from the lack of ability to do things properly.

As far as work ethic goes, it varies alot from place to place, but I think in the west crunch mode is almost always a negative thing. It works for a couple weeks, then people start getting less done than if they just worked 8 hours. I don't know if eastern shops are better at that sort of thing or not. I know in typical businessy company jobs in japan they work really long hours and have a very go go team rah rah bs that would drive me nuts. You are expected to hang out with coworkers on the weekends and such.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Kharza-kzad_sl said:
I've often thought about the strengths and weaknesses of east and west. When I was at NCSoft we had a couple Korean guys making the character models. The women everyone loved but the male models were a bit too skinny and feminine looking.

Overall though if I think of games where characters look great, they are almost all eastern. I've still never seen a western game animate as well as the soul calibur series. The rigs in that were absolutely flawless, and it is a shame they don't share whatever dark magic they used to make that happen at a GDC or something.

Eastern stuff is also fantastic at low poly world art. Lots of little details everywhere.

The west has the engineering. We know how to pathfind properly, and how to move things around on maps that aren't a big flat plane with no obstacles. I think so many of the strange game mechanics that come out of the east mostly arose from the lack of ability to do things properly.

As far as work ethic goes, it varies alot from place to place, but I think in the west crunch mode is almost always a negative thing. It works for a couple weeks, then people start getting less done than if they just worked 8 hours. I don't know if eastern shops are better at that sort of thing or not. I know in typical businessy company jobs in japan they work really long hours and have a very go go team rah rah bs that would drive me nuts. You are expected to hang out with coworkers on the weekends and such.
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I'd be curious about the team mindset in the East compared to here. Here? We have jackasses like the people leading this project where good/awesome ideas are shot down, or just simply stolen from the folks that designed them and thought of them so the lead can position themselves better within a company. (Not with this specific project per se, but the people in charge, that is how they have acted for the last 20 years)

There are a lot of shit bags in this industry in the west that ride the borderline of unethical and criminal. East has their own faults. Logistics and customer support are typical nightmares. Look at Square Enix for an example. But the same can be said about EA or Ubisoft, Microsoft, etc at some point or another but at least with those folks you actually can get someone on the phone. I'll never forget the FF14 debacle I went through when my account was flagged as EU instead of NA and I couldn't get my beta character transferred to my new account. So I had to start over. It was fairly ridiculous.

With that said, a changing of the guard at the top is well passed due. The unfortunate part is new talent learning from these assholes on how to collaborate and act together.
 
F

Felmega_sl

shitlord
563
1
Games are in full corporate profit mode now. Have been for a bit now. That means bottom dollar is more important than anything else. That's why, in part, indie games have become so popular lately. With Indie, you get labors of love, not corporate earnings boosters.
 
Greyform

Greyform

Bronze Knight of the Realm
431
17
I wish we could vote on one thread UT was not allowed to shit in. Just one. I would vote for this one.... That's not to say I wouldn't have a beer with the dude, but his hate list is too damn long and I am tired of the feces flinging.

having said that and this is just fucking sad. I am a sapphire contributor to this game and I have never logged in to one test, hell I have not even downloaded the game. Doubting seriously if I will even play it as I have not turned my gaming PC on in months. I enjoy the hell out of the Playstation, but I think I have completely worn myself out on PC gaming. I do check in on this game on this thread as I see it bumped so this is where I follow it. Up until today it has been pretty solid with a lot of honest feedback about the disconnected feel folks have with combat. I keep thinking maybe I will get some excitement to play it. But I would wait for thing to improve.

Anyhow that's it for the random post of the.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Greyform_sl said:
I wish we could vote on one thread UT was not allowed to shit in. Just one. I would vote for this one.... That's not to say I wouldn't have a beer with the dude, but his hate list is too damn long and I am tired of the feces flinging.
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Oh cut the shit. There are 10,000 threads I am not in.

I wouldn't have been posting in here if I hadn't seen a poster completely downplay UI and Combat ability lag/animations by saying you can get around that with Teamspeak and knowing your class. But either way, it's the same damn people behind all the bullshit development cycles. Erase those people, you erase my posting because I won't be there to remind them of the scumbags in charge of various development processes. Battlecry Studios (Vogel) McQuaid with his, Walton with this mess, Jacobs with his. All these people stick to each other like glue, and I can absolutely 100% guarantee you this is why we have seen jack shit happen in this genre since WoW. (Note: They were not a part of the good ol boys club, and they made a fucking awesome game and shattered records)

We need more people like that. We need less duckfucks like the people in charge of this title - holding back the genre time and time again with ineptitude. Pretty fucking simple. Don't want to read it? Ignore my ass.
 
Barab

Barab

Silver Knight of the Realm
446
35
Utnayan_sl said:
Oh cut the shit. There are 10,000 threads I am not in.

I wouldn't have been posting in here if I hadn't seen a poster completely downplay UI and Combat ability lag/animations by saying you can get around that with Teamspeak and knowing your class. But either way, it's the same damn people behind all the bullshit development cycles. Erase those people, you erase my posting because I won't be there to remind them of the scumbags in charge of various development processes. Battlecry Studios (Vogel) McQuaid with his, Walton with this mess, Jacobs with his. All these people stick to each other like glue, and I can absolutely 100% guarantee you this is why we have seen jack shit happen in this genre since WoW. (Note: They were not a part of the good ol boys club, and they made a fucking awesome game and shattered records)

We need more people like that. We need less duckfucks like the people in charge of this title - holding back the genre time and time again with ineptitude. Pretty fucking simple. Don't want to read it? Ignore my ass.
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Hey I said I was having fun in the hunger game combat pre alpha test especially so after learning my archetype abilities and even more so in group on group organized pvp fighting. If I would have known posting about enjoying and having a positive experience would have bought out the sandy vags I would of just ignored Wooly's post.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Oh cut the shit Barab.

I hear what you saying Wooly. I felt the same way back in Novemberbut after sticking w the same archetype and playing with a group on voice com on dozens of tests some of those issues become less of an issue.
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You basically just said that UI ability lag and horrible response times became less of an issue because.... wait for it.... You played the same character over and over and enabled voice coms?

Jesus Fuck seriously?

Gordon that you?
 
Barab

Barab

Silver Knight of the Realm
446
35
Utnayan_sl said:
Oh cut the shit Barab.



You basically just said that UI ability lag and horrible response times became less of an issue because.... wait for it.... You played the same character over and over and enabled voice coms?

Jesus Fuck seriously?

Gordon that you?
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What are you so upset about ? When I first logged into pre alpha back in November I felt similar to wooly. After hitting the learning curve on the one archetype I regularly played the game with testing became much more of an enjoyable experience even with latency and/or clunkieness. There is a learning curve with the current archetypes. I was grouped up with or fought against Wooly several times Sunday. I was also grouped with Jim once and he seemed fine in game. It's a pre alpha combat test cycle of course there is going to be issues to work out and honestly the new client controls have helped but there is work to do.

There is no NDA to hide behind here. Here is one of our vids from Sunday night, watch it, we were having a blast .. I am not going to apologize for having fun testing pre alpha combat in crowfall,Crowfall Pre Alpha 1.1 2016 02 14 19 6pm East Coast Server - YouTube
 
Xaxius

Xaxius

Lord Nagafen Raider
531
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Cinge_sl said:
After losing a bet or buying it used :p
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...while he was drunk.
wink.png
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Barab_sl said:
What are you so upset about ? When I first logged into pre alpha back in November I felt similar to wooly. After hitting the learning curve on the one archetype I regularly played the game with testing became much more of an enjoyable experience even with latency and/or clunkieness. There is a learning curve with the current archetypes. I was grouped up with or fought against Wooly several times Sunday. I was also grouped with Jim once and he seemed fine in game. It's a pre alpha combat test cycle of course there is going to be issues to work out and honestly the new client controls have helped but there is work to do.

There is no NDA to hide behind here. Here is one of our vids from Sunday night, watch it, we were having a blast .. I am not going to apologize for having fun testing pre alpha combat in crowfall,Crowfall Pre Alpha 1.1 2016 02 14 19 6pm East Coast Server - YouTube
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I am not saying you should. I am questioning you on saying that due to learning your class and playing with voice coms, that the core issue of responsiveness is less of an issue due to that. It's the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on the fucking internet. Pretty simple.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Cinge_sl said:
After losing a bet or buying it used :p
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2 games. One was a bet lost. The other was a mess up for Battlefront for $19.99 when Best Buy mismarked it as Battlefield 4, which I also said in that thread, and quoted multiple times, is what I said the game was worth. Go check the thread. Another pretty simple concept.

Two games.
Two

Over the course of 17 years. Go back to watching Murder She Wrote reruns because there is no mystery concept here.

You should be more concerned a Pre-Alpha tester is already trying to cover up the shit hole of UI Accessibility and responsiveness by saying you won't notice those as much when you hop into mumble with your friends and play your class for an hour or two
rolleyes.png
 
Srathor

Srathor

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,847
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If Mist and Ut would have a child we could have a Voldemort for a new Millennium!

I have not played with the new controls yet. Next playtest cycle I will try and get home and try it.

Regardless of the Ut hate, I have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy ACE's communication and the dev cycle / behind the scenes look at game development. The finished game may end up being great or suck balls but I am leaning towards great at the moment, if, they keep moving ahead, keep making things to the vision they have and tweak as needed by overwhelming feedback.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Srathor_sl said:
If Mist and Ut would have a child we could have a Voldemort for a new Millennium!

I have not played with the new controls yet. Next playtest cycle I will try and get home and try it.

Regardless of the Ut hate, I have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy ACE's communication and the dev cycle / behind the scenes look at game development. The finished game may end up being great or suck balls but I am leaning towards great at the moment, if, they keep moving ahead, keep making things to the vision they have and tweak as needed by overwhelming feedback.
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I hope you are right. Needless to say I have 20 years of evidence that says otherwise. Maybe * this * time they will get it right? I mean after 6 failed games of epic proportion across developers who cannot find work because they burnt every bridge they had in the industry covering their mistakes with scapegoats and they were finally busted, maybe they sank low enough here to come out with something decent. I wouldn't hold your breath.

Until then, don't have morons here telling the forum that they won't notice input lag and responsiveness issues when they hop into mumble, and I won't have a problem. Deflect core competency, and I'll rip open your head and shit common sense down your neck.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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You seem tense Uncle UT, maybe you should go relax on the couch with a nice game of TESO on your XBOX1.
 
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