ToeMissile
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 3,387
- 2,218
Depression
- Thread starter Tarrant
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Daidraco
Avatar of War Slayer
- 10,566
- 11,189
So what about something like Buspirone? Buspar?... I think its more for anxiety? But my gym bro swears by the shit. He thinks the drug has changed his life.Acceptable side effects if you're bordering suicidal, have anxiety, can't pull yourself up, whatnot. Always with counseling/therapy, never mono-treatment with ADs. I guess euro mentality is different, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality is less prevalent over here. Regardless, no shame in using help to get better, by any means necesary imho. What's your take on ADs,Tarrant ?
sleevedraw
Revolver Ocelot
- 2,049
- 5,833
Some of it is med-dependent. Zoloft and Paxil are particularly infamous for ED and sexual side effects. Wellbutrin often increases libido, though it's in the atypical antidepressant class; it's not a SSRI or SNRI.
I agree with
Izo
that they make sense in certain situations, and they should basically always be done in conjunction with talk therapy (and there should probably be monotherapy with just talk therapy before ADs are even considered).The problems in the US are:
- People just stay on them forever instead of using them to get through the worst of the depression and then working with their provider to taper
- In the 90s, they were basically handed out like candy without any serious discussion about the emotional blunting and sexual side effects that can occur with them. Providers didn't talk to people nearly enough (still often is the case, although it seems like providers may be talking about that a bit more in the wake of Perdue Pharma and the opiate blowback).
- Historically, health plans did not have very good coverage for psych
- Very difficult to get into any form of talk therapy due to a shortage of providers
- When you can get in, a lot of the talk therapy nowadays is neo-Freudian "trauma-informed therapy" (i.e. bullshit) where the therapist is spending time trying to dredge up issues from your childhood rather than working with you in the here and now to develop healthier patterns of thinking. Not saying that there isn't a subset of people who can benefit from going back to their past to see what they can find, but this is the minority, IMO. A lot of the trauma-informed shit doesn't really feel catered to solving problems, just to drag things out as long as it can to extract more money from the patient and the health plans.
- Talk therapy has a certain subjective element to it where both the therapist and patient need to "click." Sometimes a therapist may be very competent, but they just aren't a good fit for specific individuals, which further increases the frustration on the part of the patient when they need to look for another provider.
Last edited:
- 2
Cutlery
Kill All the White People
- 7,227
- 21,875
I didn't have ED on Zoloft, had the opposite...couldn't get off. Could literally fuck for hours.
You think that'd be a good time, until you try it.
I did consider keeping some around just for "recreational" purposes, but those drugs all have a pretty big withdrawal effects too, so not fucking worth it.
You think that'd be a good time, until you try it.
I did consider keeping some around just for "recreational" purposes, but those drugs all have a pretty big withdrawal effects too, so not fucking worth it.
- 1
moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 24,890
- 47,055
Control
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 3,405
- 9,021
I've always been the same way, but I've also realized that a lot of this shit (maybe all of it) is just simply mechanical. Not enough of something you need? That'll fuck you up. Too much of something? That'll fuck you up too. That's great in some ways but terrible in that we don't have the proper understanding or diagnostic tools to actually work on the machine with any degree of precision. Also, there are difficulties inherent to a faulty machine trying to diagnose and fix itself... But we can hack at it with experiments and process of elimination at least.
I try out a lot of supplements, and most don't have any noticeable effect of course. Some do though, and not always for the better, which can be educational, if unpleasant. If I take boron for a few days, my mood goes completely off the rails. If I naturally got more boron in my diet, maybe I would have adjusted to it, or maybe I'd be dead or in jail... Definitely scary the effect that some things can have.
Any time someone is going through a rough patch, they should take a close look at literally everything they're putting in their bodies (and maybe even having contact with) and consider doing an elimination diet for a while as if you were trying to find an allergen. It's important to do some tracking too since the changes can be very gradual, and we tend to forget about a problem if we're not currently bothered by it.
- 1
Izo
Tranny Chaser
- 19,779
- 24,356
Anxiety only, yeah. It's basically a slow acting benzo-like drug. WIthout the benzo addictive features. Takes 3-4 weeks to work. Not the worst drug imho. But it's not for depression.
- 1
ToeMissile
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 3,387
- 2,218
There's a good bit of overlap in anxiety & depression, so I can see how decreasing anxiety could also reduce depression.
During my Holiday Inn stay, I did some reading:
- 1
Izo
Tranny Chaser
- 19,779
- 24,356
Overlap sure. Doesn't change that Buspirone does not have antidepressant as an indication. It has anxiety alone. I'm not a psychiatrist, I'd never prescribe it offlabel for depression. That would be quackery over here in my part of eurocuckistan, without psychiatric specialization. Aka specialized knowledge and ability to diagnose, not overlook diff diagnosis and weigh the pro-cons for the individual patient. Don't delude yourself a round of google fu gives you that. It doesn't for me. Shouldn't for you. Anywho, I'd advise to go see a GP / psych, get the appropriate professional evaluation, my FoH bros.
- 2
ToeMissile
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 3,387
- 2,218
Cad
scientia potentia est
- 26,257
- 53,527
I like to look at what the drugs actually do rather than what conditions doctors say are "indicated." Buspar is a selective serotonin agonist (means it stimulates certain serotonin receptors) and a selective dopamine receptor antagonist (calms down or de-stimulates some dopamine receptors). What serotonin and dopamine do is way beyond anything I'm about to type out, but I'd start in the pharmacodynamics section of a drug you're looking at:
Buspirone acts as a partial agonist of the serotonin 5-HT1A receptor with high affinity.[3][38] It is a partial agonist of both presynaptic 5-HT1A receptors, which are inhibitory autoreceptors, and postsynaptic 5-HT1A receptors.[3] It is thought that the main effects of buspirone are mediated via its interaction with the presynaptic 5-HT1A receptor, thus reducing the firing of serotonin-producing neurons.[3] Buspirone also seems to have lower affinities for the serotonin 5-HT2A, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT6, 5-HT7 receptors where it probably acts as an antagonist.[37]
In addition to binding to serotonin receptors, buspirone is an antagonist of the dopamine D2 receptor with weak affinity.[3][38] It preferentially blocks inhibitory presynaptic D2 autoreceptors, and antagonizes postsynaptic D2 receptors only at higher doses.[3] In accordance, buspirone has been found to increase dopaminergic neurotransmission in the nigrostriatal pathway at low doses, whereas at higher doses, postsynaptic D2 receptors are blocked and antidopaminergic effects such as hypoactivity and reduced stereotypy, though notably not catalepsy, are observed in animals.[3] Buspirone has also been found to bind with much higher affinity to the dopamine D3 and D4 receptors, where it is similarly an antagonist.[45]
And then go do research and figure out what those particular serotonin receptors do and the dopamine ones do. "In general" serotonin is more tied to mood, stimulating serotonin receptors elevates mood and makes emotional things seem more intense. Dopamine is more tied to motivation, taking action, and reward system. This is VASTLY oversimplifying, but you get the idea.
SSRI's by contrast try to elevate your circulating serotonin levels (body naturally makes serotonin, a neurotransmitter, in certain amounts; a serotonin agonist sits in the serotonin receptors and stimulates them - a serotonin agonist could be considered fake serotonin that is activating the receptor in a different way than natural serotonin) by preventing the body from re-absorbing serotonin as it usually does, thus elevating the circulating levels. This "should" elevate your mood and probably does temporarily, but the body down-regulates serotonin receptors in response to elevated serotonin levels:
Psychopharmacology Institute
Which is probably why the effects level off after a while and you're just left with bullshit side effects.
I'm not sure anybody really knows why serotonin effects mood, but it does, and we know what these drugs do even if we don't exactly know why.
- 1
Tarrant
<Prior Amod>
- 16,038
- 9,475
Acceptable side effects if you're bordering suicidal, have anxiety, can't pull yourself up, whatnot. Always with counseling/therapy, never mono-treatment with ADs. I guess euro mentality is different, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality is less prevalent over here. Regardless, no shame in using help to get better, by any means necesary imho. What's your take on ADs,
I just saw this for some reason.
long story short, ADs I think are fine depending on dosage and circumstances but I am adamantly against Effexor (Venlafaxine) and think it should be taken off the market.
Tarrant
<Prior Amod>
- 16,038
- 9,475
Speaking of depression, I've been thinking a lot as of late and after going through some stuff recently I've finally decided to reach out and talk to a therapist.
I have issues stemming back from essentially being replaced with an adopted sibling when I was younger all the way through to my divorces and issues with my daughter the last couple years and I'm tired of suppressing it and its to a point where I don't know how to anymore. This past Christmas was the first I haven't seen one of my kids (my daughter) and it really impacted my youngest son. She's going through some things, I'm not sure what and I'm not even sure she does…but hopefully she figures it out.
Anyway, I meet with them next week, hopefully it goes well.
I have issues stemming back from essentially being replaced with an adopted sibling when I was younger all the way through to my divorces and issues with my daughter the last couple years and I'm tired of suppressing it and its to a point where I don't know how to anymore. This past Christmas was the first I haven't seen one of my kids (my daughter) and it really impacted my youngest son. She's going through some things, I'm not sure what and I'm not even sure she does…but hopefully she figures it out.
Anyway, I meet with them next week, hopefully it goes well.
Last edited:
- 2
moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 24,890
- 47,055
Good luck! If you don't find the therapist to your liking, don't be afraid to try another. And another. Each shrink is different, just like everyone else.
- 2
- 49,379
- 235,759
I resisted therapy for a long time. I was raised in a "just do better" kind of environment, and only insane people went to therapists. I have been in a much healthier life situation since I left home all those years ago. I have been with a therapist for the last 9 years. When I first went I had a tremendous sense of dread before each session. It wasn't logical, but it felt like being called to the principal's office each time. Over the years that has changed. There is no guilt or shame remaining at this point, and I happily anticipate each meeting with my therapist. I look forward to them. It is a place where I can say absolutely anything without judgement. Yeah, I'm feeling shitty about this or that, yeah I feel like a jerk because I (fill in the blank). Therapist just listens and tries to help me figure out why those are my reactions to things. How my depression and anxiety are affecting my decisions. It is incredibly helpful for me, I really hope you can find the same thing because it is life changing. And, just as
moonarchia
said, your first therapist doesn't have to be your only therapist. Find someone you trust. And don't be afraid to tell your therapist you'd like a change. They won't be offended - they know not everyone fits with every therapist.Take care of yourself.
- 7
