Depression

Foler · Dec 6, 2024

Synj said:
This is 100% the case.

300 is normal. Doesn’t mean that it feels good or is moderating your mood or doing all the other awesome things T does for you in your 20-40s ie 800-1200.

Is arthritis and joint pain normal in a 50 year old? Yes. Are we okay just accepting it or would we rather have the knees of a 20 year old?

Daidraco speaks the truth here.

My T last year was 440. I was in rough shape at the time physically. I’m back in great physical shape, eating healthy etc so I need to get it checked again. However what you and

Daidraco have said now and others before regarding this has had me thinking for the past year about trying T due to depression/anxiety issues. I’m 36 though so I’m trying to hold off just a little bit as my understanding is once you’re on it you have to be a lifelong patient(?)

Is it possible to just try it for X amount of months to see if it helps at all and stop if it doesn’t? Would you be hesitant at my age?

Gurgeh · Dec 6, 2024

Foler said:
My T last year was 440. I was in rough shape at the time physically. I’m back in great physical shape, eating healthy etc so I need to get it checked again. However what you and Daidraco have said now and others before regarding this has had me thinking for the past year about trying T due to depression/anxiety issues. I’m 36 though so I’m trying to hold off just a little bit as my understanding is once you’re on it you have to be a lifelong patient(?)

Is it possible to just try it for X amount of months to see if it helps at all and stop if it doesn’t? Would you be hesitant at my age?

Maybe check your T level if you're currently feeling better. Probably it's gone significantly up.

Foler · Dec 6, 2024

Gurgeh said:
Maybe check your T level if you're currently feeling better. Probably it's gone significantly up.

Yeah. I’m gonna do that. We had a convo on it maybe 7 months ago when I was getting my shit together and you mentioned it’ll take a few months to notice a difference from diet/working out/your other recommendations.

Gurgeh · Dec 6, 2024

Foler said:
Yeah. I’m gonna do that. We had a convo on it maybe 7 months ago when I was getting my shit together and you mentioned it’ll take a few months to notice a difference from diet/working out/your other recommendations.

You say you're feeling physicaly great. I guess that means your anxiety/ depression are either gone or at least getting significantly better. If it’s only been half a year, things are most likely going to keep getting better that way for another year at least... Just if you keep doing what you do and optimizing slightly what you do.

You probably want to cut down on supplement as you get better, and save them for when things get worse, hopefully in decades.

Testosterone being an hormone, supplementing it will disrupt endogenous testosterone production, meaning if you stop it you'll feel a lot worse than if you never took it. 36 is quite young, too young if you can avoid longer term risks associated with it.

At 70, it’s different...

Daidraco · Dec 6, 2024

Foler said:
My T last year was 440. I was in rough shape at the time physically. I’m back in great physical shape, eating healthy etc so I need to get it checked again. However what you and Daidraco have said now and others before regarding this has had me thinking for the past year about trying T due to depression/anxiety issues. I’m 36 though so I’m trying to hold off just a little bit as my understanding is once you’re on it you have to be a lifelong patient(?)

Is it possible to just try it for X amount of months to see if it helps at all and stop if it doesn’t? Would you be hesitant at my age?

The "duldrums" as people call it, starts in your late 30's if your T levels are low. Mainly your diet, but somewhat exercise, will change your testosterone and you'll get a boost from that for a time. But your peak levels are ever-decreasing. Since we're a nerd/computer gaming forum first and foremost, compare it to a power supply for a PC. A 1000W PSU has a peak of 1000, but on average it stays lower than that and as it ages, it gets lower and lower. So if your average on a bad diet was 440, I cant imagine that your peak production on a good diet or w/exercise is much more than that, 600? Right? You'll feel better than you did at 440, but will you be making the same decisions and have the same motivations as you would with your T levels at twice that amount? ... (I hope this makes sense.)

Basically, just try it for 90 days and see what you think. Since you're reluctant about its value, it probably wont be the first thing on your to-do list in the morning. So I would recommend getting the shots instead of the gel's or .. pellets, or w/e.

moonarchia · Dec 6, 2024

Daidraco said:
The "duldrums" as people call it,

Doldrums.

Borzak · Dec 7, 2024

Not masively better as my helth is off the rails. But I did talk to someone on the phone for several hours the last week, someone I haven't seen or talked to in a long time. Kinda nice.

Haus · Dec 8, 2024

moonarchia said:
Doldrums.

No, I think he meant Duldrums, although probably should have been Dulldrums. Since essentially it feels like everything is dulled to you. Fewer highs, fewer (but sometimes deeper) lows, No energy to be "interesting", dulled drive for sex, etc.....

I did T supplementation throughout my late 40's and into my 50's, but haven't done it in close to 4 years. Now past the midway mark of my 50's I'm debating checking back into it to perk things back up. And for some reasons as the topic of this thread. I've been feeling depressed. Of course there are some persistent non-medical conditions in my life which aren't changing which I know contribute to this. But wondering if some pharmaceutical buttressing might make things flow better.

Which brings me to the topic of the thread. How do you handle if you know why you're depressed, but it's something nothing can be done about? I have a couple of those situations in my life, and wondering if someone else has found a work around other than just "learn to give less of a shit, sedate yourself, or distract yourself".

Cutlery · Dec 9, 2024

Haus said:
No, I think he meant Duldrums, although probably should have been Dulldrums. Since essentially it feels like everything is dulled to you. Fewer highs, fewer (but sometimes deeper) lows, No energy to be "interesting", dulled drive for sex, etc.....

I did T supplementation throughout my late 40's and into my 50's, but haven't done it in close to 4 years. Now past the midway mark of my 50's I'm debating checking back into it to perk things back up. And for some reasons as the topic of this thread. I've been feeling depressed. Of course there are some persistent non-medical conditions in my life which aren't changing which I know contribute to this. But wondering if some pharmaceutical buttressing might make things flow better.

Which brings me to the topic of the thread. How do you handle if you know why you're depressed, but it's something nothing can be done about? I have a couple of those situations in my life, and wondering if someone else has found a work around other than just "learn to give less of a shit, sedate yourself, or distract yourself".

If you figure it out, let me know. Mine just seems to be getting worse as the years move on. Same curiosity about testosterone. My metabolism has seemingly slowed to a crawl, and I'm markedly less angry than I used to be. I know that probably seems like a good thing, but I feel like I shouldn't be so chill about everything. Seems like the likely place to start.

Turns out vitamin D and magnesium levels can both be linked to low test levels, so I'm gonna start there. It's easy enough.

moonarchia · Dec 9, 2024

Haus said:
No, I think he meant Duldrums, although probably should have been Dulldrums. Since essentially it feels like everything is dulled to you. Fewer highs, fewer (but sometimes deeper) lows, No energy to be "interesting", dulled drive for sex, etc.....

I did T supplementation throughout my late 40's and into my 50's, but haven't done it in close to 4 years. Now past the midway mark of my 50's I'm debating checking back into it to perk things back up. And for some reasons as the topic of this thread. I've been feeling depressed. Of course there are some persistent non-medical conditions in my life which aren't changing which I know contribute to this. But wondering if some pharmaceutical buttressing might make things flow better.

Which brings me to the topic of the thread. How do you handle if you know why you're depressed, but it's something nothing can be done about? I have a couple of those situations in my life, and wondering if someone else has found a work around other than just "learn to give less of a shit, sedate yourself, or distract yourself".

No, the word is spelled doldrums. I was being a spelling nazi.

Definition of DOLDRUMS

a spell of listlessness or despondency; a part of the ocean near the equator abounding in calms, squalls, and light shifting winds; a state or period of inactivity, stagnation, or slump… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Gavinmad · Dec 9, 2024

moonarchia said:
No, the word is spelled doldrums. I was being a spelling nazi.

Definition of DOLDRUMS

a spell of listlessness or despondency; a part of the ocean near the equator abounding in calms, squalls, and light shifting winds; a state or period of inactivity, stagnation, or slump… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

No, you were being a spelling Nazi.

moonarchia · Dec 9, 2024

Gavinmad said:
No, you were being a spelling Nazi.

Not organized enough for the capitalization.

Synj · Dec 12, 2024

Haus said:
No, I think he meant Duldrums, although probably should have been Dulldrums. Since essentially it feels like everything is dulled to you. Fewer highs, fewer (but sometimes deeper) lows, No energy to be "interesting", dulled drive for sex, etc.....

I did T supplementation throughout my late 40's and into my 50's, but haven't done it in close to 4 years. Now past the midway mark of my 50's I'm debating checking back into it to perk things back up. And for some reasons as the topic of this thread. I've been feeling depressed. Of course there are some persistent non-medical conditions in my life which aren't changing which I know contribute to this. But wondering if some pharmaceutical buttressing might make things flow better.

Which brings me to the topic of the thread. How do you handle if you know why you're depressed, but it's something nothing can be done about? I have a couple of those situations in my life, and wondering if someone else has found a work around other than just "learn to give less of a shit, sedate yourself, or distract yourself".

Anhedonia is the worst. That inability to find joy in the things you once found joy in. Your coping mechanisms and go-to distractions just stop working one day and have like zero interest even if you wish they did. Even a blow job sounds meh. That’s a bad way to feel brother.

But it’s a feelings problem (along with the chemistry of aging and physical effects). I’ve been doing somatic and inner child work. Sounds gay but it’s been helping. Most of my recent depression and shit has come from relationship woes and self-worth tied to all of that. But the somatic inner child stuff is literally about figuring out what’s your shit and where is it stored in your body and working through it by learning to express it. Kinda like moving your triggers from 10/10 to 6/10 and then eventually getting down to a 2/10.

That and boundary work. My shit has been overwhelmed for years because of taking on too much for all of my relationships (family, intimate, work) under the guise of being a good dude/hard worker. Saying what I need required me to know what I need inside first.

If anyone makes fun of this shit I will fight you!

moonarchia · Dec 12, 2024

Synj said:
Anhedonia is the worst. That inability to find joy in the things you once found joy in. Your coping mechanisms and go-to distractions just stop working one day and have like zero interest even if you wish they did. Even a blow job sounds meh. That’s a bad way to feel brother.

But it’s a feelings problem (along with the chemistry of aging and physical effects). I’ve been doing somatic and inner child work. Sounds gay but it’s been helping. Most of my recent depression and shit has come from relationship woes and self-worth tied to all of that. But the somatic inner child stuff is literally about figuring out what’s your shit and where is it stored in your body and working through it by learning to express it. Kinda like moving your triggers from 10/10 to 6/10 and then eventually getting down to a 2/10.

That and boundary work. My shit has been overwhelmed for years because of taking on too much for all of my relationships (family, intimate, work) under the guise of being a good dude/hard worker. Saying what I need required me to know what I need inside first.

If anyone makes fun of this shit I will fight you!

Not gonna throw any shade. Hope your relationship stuff works out in a good way.

That's what I got out of meditation, and why I always suggest it. The empty mind is an excellent state to find and do all of that. Strip away all the noise and distraction your life bombards you with, and that's all you are left with.

Haus · Dec 12, 2024

Synj said:
Anhedonia is the worst. That inability to find joy in the things you once found joy in. Your coping mechanisms and go-to distractions just stop working one day and have like zero interest even if you wish they did. Even a blow job sounds meh. That’s a bad way to feel brother.

But it’s a feelings problem (along with the chemistry of aging and physical effects). I’ve been doing somatic and inner child work. Sounds gay but it’s been helping. Most of my recent depression and shit has come from relationship woes and self-worth tied to all of that. But the somatic inner child stuff is literally about figuring out what’s your shit and where is it stored in your body and working through it by learning to express it. Kinda like moving your triggers from 10/10 to 6/10 and then eventually getting down to a 2/10.

That and boundary work. My shit has been overwhelmed for years because of taking on too much for all of my relationships (family, intimate, work) under the guise of being a good dude/hard worker. Saying what I need required me to know what I need inside first.

If anyone makes fun of this shit I will fight you!

In my case I know a lot of the external issues, most notably this scenario...

Multiple relatives dealing with advancing age and/or severe illness where I am needing to step in and assist. I get it, it's the circle of life. But then there's the side factor that my wife and I are childless, and not due to lack of trying, and all the trying (i.e. engaging medical science up to the point of multiple IVF attempts) caused cascading medical after effects that by the time we handled them we were told by adoption agencies that we would be long shots at best to adopt a child due to being older now. So I'm handling a lot for my mom for example, which I see as part of the family social contract, but at the same time I know my wife and I will have none of this kind of support when we get old, and that's depressing. Add onto this that we're in the holidays and going to family events where we're seeing all the nephews/nieces, and now some of them having kids, it just highlights this large hole in my existence that I feel should be filled, but can't be by the normal means (having kids). So I lean on my distractions/hobbies/pets. And now those aren't doing it anymore, or if they are "doing it" it's to a considerably lessened degree.

I know that hormonal balance and biochemistry isn't going to solve that problem. But I also know that when I was rocking the T level of a 22 year old my focus/drive/energy level was as such that it was at least easier to motivate myself to do things, and in general I just felt better. I also know that for the most part anti-depressants are just going to "narrow the emotional range" where you feel fewer lows, but also feel fewer highs. That doesn't feel like a good solution for me.

Hateyou · Dec 16, 2024

Haus said:
In my case I know a lot of the external issues, most notably this scenario...

Multiple relatives dealing with advancing age and/or severe illness where I am needing to step in and assist. I get it, it's the circle of life. But then there's the side factor that my wife and I are childless, and not due to lack of trying, and all the trying (i.e. engaging medical science up to the point of multiple IVF attempts) caused cascading medical after effects that by the time we handled them we were told by adoption agencies that we would be long shots at best to adopt a child due to being older now. So I'm handling a lot for my mom for example, which I see as part of the family social contract, but at the same time I know my wife and I will have none of this kind of support when we get old, and that's depressing. Add onto this that we're in the holidays and going to family events where we're seeing all the nephews/nieces, and now some of them having kids, it just highlights this large hole in my existence that I feel should be filled, but can't be by the normal means (having kids). So I lean on my distractions/hobbies/pets. And now those aren't doing it anymore, or if they are "doing it" it's to a considerably lessened degree.

I know that hormonal balance and biochemistry isn't going to solve that problem. But I also know that when I was rocking the T level of a 22 year old my focus/drive/energy level was as such that it was at least easier to motivate myself to do things, and in general I just felt better. I also know that for the most part anti-depressants are just going to "narrow the emotional range" where you feel fewer lows, but also feel fewer highs. That doesn't feel like a good solution for me.

Do not even contemplate anti-depressants. They’re fucking big pharma garbage and have the opposite effect, all while being hard/impossible to come off of.

Haus · Dec 16, 2024

Hateyou said:
Do not even contemplate anti-depressants. They’re fucking big pharma garbage and have the opposite effect, all while being hard/impossible to come off of.

I've never honest considered them. But probably more because I'm just stubborn enough to believe that if I can logically identify and know the problem I should be good enough to find a way past it.

moonarchia · Dec 17, 2024

Hateyou said:
Do not even contemplate anti-depressants. They’re fucking big pharma garbage and have the opposite effect, all while being hard/impossible to come off of.

Yeah, the side effects were why I never bothered trying to get on those and found other ways to fix my mental shit.

Izo · Dec 17, 2024

Acceptable side effects if you're bordering suicidal, have anxiety, can't pull yourself up, whatnot. Always with counseling/therapy, never mono-treatment with ADs. I guess euro mentality is different, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality is less prevalent over here. Regardless, no shame in using help to get better, by any means necesary imho. What's your take on ADs,

Tarrant ?

Cad · Dec 17, 2024

Izo said:
Acceptable side effects if you're bordering suicidal, have anxiety, can't pull yourself up, whatnot. Always with counseling/therapy, never mono-treatment with ADs. I guess euro mentality is different, pull yourself up by the bootstraps mentality is less prevalent over here. Regardless, no shame in using help to get better, by any means necesary imho. What's your take on ADs, Tarrant ?

Everyone I know that has tried them has ended up with serious sexual side effects, numb emotions, etc. Serious inability to orgasm, not caring about sex anymore, etc..

Obviously do what you gotta do if you're suicidal but not being able to have a satisfying sex life would cause depression just by itself.

Depression

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