Depression

Foler · Aug 16, 2020

Frenzied Wombat said:
It’s been a few years at this point and the problem isn’t getting it up, it’s interest. Just not horny anymore at all, not interested in chasing tail. It’s like I can recognize a woman as beautiful, but that emotional and physiological response that would make you climb mountains to plow her are gone— she might as well be a lovely painting. Those drugs rob you of your ability to *feel*.

I know this feeling and it's terrible. Viagra doesn't help with it and as someone mentioned earlier - having sexual motivation goes beyond seeking sex. I think in other ways it's one aspect that drives and motivates you to be successful, take care of yourself, etc.

moonarchia said:
Get tested for testosterone levels. Get some butt pellets from Synj and you'll be right as rain.

Yeah, I've been curious if butt pellets would help offset some of the negative side effects. I mean they may offset even some of the depression too.

Frenzied Wombat you should try this and report back, im curious

Antidepressants suck and should only be used as a last resort where the alternative is worse.

Frenzied Wombat · Aug 16, 2020

moonarchia said:
Get tested for testosterone levels. Get some butt pellets from Synj and you'll be right as rain.

Been there tried that. I’ve tried everything. Testosterone helped a tiny bit at first, then died off. Even tried jacking the levels to around 700 and all it did was give me teenage era acne and dermatitis.

Synj · Aug 16, 2020

Frenzied Wombat said:
It’s been a few years at this point and the problem isn’t getting it up, it’s interest. Just not horny anymore at all, not interested in chasing tail. It’s like I can recognize a woman as beautiful, but that emotional and physiological response that would make you climb mountains to plow her are gone— she might as well be a lovely painting. Those drugs rob you of your ability to *feel*.

Libido is almost 100% testosterone. I actually enjoy wanting tail, and prior to testosterone pelleting I could definitely feel the difference.

Lumi · Aug 18, 2020

Frenzied Wombat said:
Been there tried that. I’ve tried everything. Testosterone helped a tiny bit at first, then died off. Even tried jacking the levels to around 700 and all it did was give me teenage era acne and dermatitis.

I guarantee you haven't tried prolonged fasting and I also guarantee that it would work.

Foler · Aug 18, 2020

Synj said:
Libido is almost 100% testosterone. I actually enjoy wanting tail, and prior to testosterone pelleting I could definitely feel the difference.

Hey synj, if you already mentioned this elsewhere can you please point me to it. Few questions - what were your T levels before and after? What was it initially that caused you to pursue butt pellets (low T on blood work?)?

Izo · Aug 18, 2020

Lumi said:
I guarantee you haven't tried prolonged fasting and I also guarantee that it would work.

What’s the mechanism you propose? I smell a nobel prize, Lumi.

Lumi · Aug 18, 2020

Izo said:
What’s the mechanism you propose? I smell a nobel prize, Lumi.

"According to our results, the levels of serotonin in plasma of fasting states were significantly higher than those levels in non-fasting controls. Fuenmayorl and Garcia reported that fasting leads to increase the turnover of brain 5-HT and suggested that the fasting state may increase 5-HT turnover in all brain areas."

"Low levels of serotonin in the brain may cause depression, anxiety, and sleep trouble."

But wait, there's more!

"Researchers discover that fasting reduces inflammation and improves chronic inflammatory diseases"

"Fasting regimens have gained public and scientific interest in recent years, but fasting shouldn't be dismissed as a fad. In a study published in Cell, Mount Sinai researchers found that fasting reduces inflammation and improves chronic inflammatory diseases without affecting the immune system's response to acute infections."

"A range of research showed that proteins in the body could reach the brain. These included inflammatory proteins called cytokines that were churned out in times of infection by immune cells called macrophages. Bullmore pulls together evidence that this echo of inflammation in the brain can be linked to depression."

So not only does fasting increase seratonin levels dramatically but it reduces inflammation making you feel better in general.

Izo · Aug 18, 2020

Lumi said:
"According to our results, the levels of serotonin in plasma of fasting states were significantly higher than those levels in non-fasting controls. Fuenmayorl and Garcia reported that fasting leads to increase the turnover of brain 5-HT and suggested that the fasting state may increase 5-HT turnover in all brain areas."

"Low levels of serotonin in the brain may cause depression, anxiety, and sleep trouble."

But wait, there's more!

"Researchers discover that fasting reduces inflammation and improves chronic inflammatory diseases"

"Fasting regimens have gained public and scientific interest in recent years, but fasting shouldn't be dismissed as a fad. In a study published in Cell, Mount Sinai researchers found that fasting reduces inflammation and improves chronic inflammatory diseases without affecting the immune system's response to acute infections."

"A range of research showed that proteins in the body could reach the brain. These included inflammatory proteins called cytokines that were churned out in times of infection by immune cells called macrophages. Bullmore pulls together evidence that this echo of inflammation in the brain can be linked to depression."

So not only does fasting increase seratonin levels dramatically but it reduces inflammation making you feel better in general.

Source? We’ve been over fasting before. Fasting has varying levels, some dangerous, some healthy. Don’t conflate them here too, please

Lumi · Aug 19, 2020

Izo said:
Source? We’ve been over fasting before. Fasting has varying levels, some dangerous, some healthy. Don’t conflate them here too, please

Try googling and do some of your own research. Or even better yet, do it yourself and see through your own experience what it's actually capable of. Might make you a lot less ignorant than you clearly are.

Izo · Aug 19, 2020

Lumi said:
Try googling and do some of your own research. Or even better yet, do it yourself and see through your own experience what it's actually capable of. Might make you a lot less ignorant than you clearly are.

No, you quoted something without a source. Post the source(s), so we might have a look. If it’s so good you won’t mind sharing it. Unless you’re a chicken shit ofcourse. Skepticism is the default position. Show us what has you convinced and preaching it like it’s the only truth. We have a look, and possibly learn something. That’s how it works.

Put up or shut up, Lumi.

Lumi · Aug 19, 2020

Izo said:
No, you quoted something without a source. Post the source(s), so we might have a look. If it’s so good you won’t mind sharing it. Unless you’re a chicken shit ofcourse. Skepticism is the default position. Show us what has you convinced and preaching it like it’s the only truth. We have a look, and possibly learn something. That’s how it works.

Put up or shut up, Lumi.

I know you're not that smart but you do know you can copy and paste the quote into google yourself and easily find the source right? You do know how the internet works...right?

Hateyou · Aug 19, 2020

I thought this was the grownup section?

Denamian · Aug 19, 2020

Lumi said:
I know you're boarderline retarded but you do know you can copy and paste the quote into google yourself and easily find the source right? You do know how the internet works...right?

This is the grown up forum. Act like one or leave.

Lumi · Aug 19, 2020

Denamian said:
This is the grown up forum. Act like one or leave.

The dude is asking me to link my source when literally all he has to do is take 5 seconds to copy and paste into google and it's literally the first possible result and yet you think I'm the one not acting like an adult? /facepalm

Denamian · Aug 19, 2020

Lumi said:
The dude is asking me to link my source when literally all he has to do is take 5 seconds to copy and paste it into google and it's literally the first possible result and yet you think I'm the one not acting like an adult? /facepalm

You're the one making the claims, so it's on you to provide sources. Plus your usual insults are not welcome.

Lumi · Aug 19, 2020

Denamian said:
You're the one making the claims, so it's on you to provide sources. Plus your usual insults are not welcome.

THE QUOTE IS THE SOURCE. It's difficult not to insult when I'm dealing with people that legit seem like they're straight out of the movie Idiocracy.

Denamian · Aug 19, 2020

Lumi said:
THE QUOTE IS THE SOURCE. It's difficult not to insult when I'm dealing with people that legit seem like they're straight out of the movie Idiocracy.

And who is the quote attributed to? I see 2 last names in there and that's it. Provide a link to where you found it.

Lumi · Aug 19, 2020

Denamian said:
And who is the quote attributed to? I see 2 last names in there and that's it. Provide a link to where you found it.

The Effects of Fasting During Ramadan on the Concentration of Serotonin, Dopamine, Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor and Nerve Growth Factor

Neurotransmitters and neurotrophic factors are signaling molecules that play a crucial role in cell proliferation, differentiation, survival and functions of neurons. It is believed that caloric restriction could help the health of the nervous system ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Serotonin: Functions, Normal Range, Side Effects, and More

Every part of your body uses serotonin, from your emotions to your motor skills. It’s mostly known as a natural mood stabilizer, but it also helps maintain bone health and even aids in healing wounds. We’ll explain more about serotonin, including normal ranges and how to treat a serotonin...

www.healthline.com

.

Mount Sinai Researchers Discover That Fasting Reduces Inflammation and Improves Chronic Inflammatory Diseases | Mount Sinai - New York

www.mountsinai.org

Depression: the radical theory linking it to inflammation

Alison Abbott considers a persuasive case for the link between body and mind.

www.nature.com

The bottom line, however, is to see things for yourself. How often have you heard a review for a movie saying it was terrible only to watch the movie and find you really liked it or a review saying it was amazing only to watch it and think it was awful? There's more than enough evidence to heavily support the fact that fasting is extremely beneficial. You can read all of the articles about it that you want but unless you actually do it yourself you'll never actually know what it's really capable of.

Izo · Aug 20, 2020

It’s well know, that fasting, intermittent fasting and various regimes can induce biochemical changes.

First study:
Authors are 3 iranias, a professor a phd student and a m.sc biochemistry. Bias alert.
Inclusion is n=22, . Not really large population to generalize from. It’s ramadam, they eat from sundown, not water fasting as you’ve argued in Araysars thread.
The study has been cited by a staggering....two.... other studies.
The impact factor of the journal, neurology international, was 0.33 in 2016. It’s based in Italy. Lancet is around 40, Nature aroun 60. This journal is garbage, aka the peer review quality. On it’s webpage it has neuroscience as a focus. This study is nowhere to be found in psychiatry.
On to the authers conclusion, which is obvious to anyone used to reading scientific journals:
“Conclusions
In conclusion, our findings suggest that plasma levels of serotonin, BDNF and NGF were significantly increased during fasting month of Ramadan. However, there is still much that needs to be investigated to better understand the underlying mechanisms.”
Nothing concluding what you think, nor can it with such a low power (e.g. n is very low). It seems to me you’re reasoning by induction.

The bottom line is, you found one study, amung thousands with fasting that said what you like. Not really how science works. Try the cochrane library, meta analasis on many studies, which shows trend over many studies, not just a single one. There are numerous of those on nutrition, cardiovascular, lung, whatnot organs. Not many on mental health, zero on cochrane. Linking to an editorial in nature is not really a study nor was it specifically for depression. I grow tired of your selective reasoning.

Here are a couple of thousands evidence based clinical studies on fasting therapy to look it, lumi - it’s not really new to the world of science.

An overview of evidence-based clinical studies on fasting therapy | Colloquium Abstracts

abstracts.cochrane.org

Better yet, go make a scientific trial, get it published, get others to test it, and we may speak again.

Feel free to post some more. But please stop generalizing from a study of n=22 in the future, thanks.

Haus · Aug 20, 2020

Frenzied Wombat said:
Been there tried that. I’ve tried everything. Testosterone helped a tiny bit at first, then died off. Even tried jacking the levels to around 700 and all it did was give me teenage era acne and dermatitis.

You need to step up to flavor country.. (Around 1300-1400). That's where I target and the differences are enormous.

Foler said:
Hey synj, if you already mentioned this elsewhere can you please point me to it. Few questions - what were your T levels before and after? What was it initially that caused you to pursue butt pellets (low T on blood work?)?

I can tell you my story of this. After a string of medical issues my wife went through, and a few I went through, I was feeling generally depressed, down, tired all the time, libido at an all time low for me on top of it. This was in my mid 30's I was hearing all the ads on the radio about low-t, but I also figured them under the "those who sell the panic sell the pills" so I didn't trust them. I asked my Dr on my next check up that when she ran bloodwork to please check my T level. She obliged. It came back and I clocked in at a romp stomping 103. She said that was low, but not chronic. (I would later find out that apparently this is called Andropause).

I then looked at options. Insurance would cover creams that smelled horrible and stained your clothes, doing once or twice weekly intramuscular shots (which hurt, and 2 times a week?!?) But then wouldn't cover the pellet therapies. I looked at those as well. Once every 4-6 months, hour office visit and put an ice pack on the insertion location for a few hours after. I figured I would pay the out of pocket for the convenience. Initial load out took me to 900, and I felt like a guy 10 years younger. I've been pretty much doing it since, that was when I was 35, when I turned 50 I wanted to see if anythings biologically had changed so decided to stop.

Which brings me around to why I'd post about this in the depression thread...

Around 6 months later and mentally I kept thinking I wasn't doing that bad. But apparently that was not the case. People around me were noticing to the point that one of my best friends (who I work with) even poked at me about it some. They had dealt with a close friend of theirs up north who lost a battle with long term depression and killed themselves. They said I was acting just like he did for the year before he took his life. Asked me seriously if I had considered going to a therapist to see if I was suffering from depression. I'll admit I was in a serious "funk". Felt like everything was just "one more piece of crap on my life" for the most part, was having trouble focusing on anything really, lots of crap. Found myself asking myself questions like "Is this all there really is left for me in life?" at 51...

I go back in for the first time in over a year to get my level checked, it's down around 325. I throw money at the problem and tell them I want to target 1300. Three weeks later I still saw the things which upset or depressed me, but I no longer saw them as insurmountable, rather I saw them as problems I needed to go fix. My friend from work noticed at around the 3 week mark, and only then admitted that how she knew something was wrong was that I was acting like her when she was on her period.

And this doesn't even touch on how well it's helped me maintain good muscle tone and mass, that's a whole 'nother story....

So this might be completely my personal and anecdotal evidence, but hormone levels and getting them back to 18-20 year old Haus levels were apparently the key for me.

Took me from

to

Depression

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