Diablo 3 - Reaper of Souls

Amzin_sl said:

D3 Classes have a large pool of abilities to specialize in, but they are balanced terribly. I strongly disagree about D2, I rarely replayed it because I did NOT want to start at level 1 again and plow through acts 1-5 over and over again for hours before the build actually reached fruition. There's no fun in doing the same thing I've done half a dozen times to try something new for half an hour. The D3 model is way more entertaining to me. 5 classes (currently) that I ground up to 60 that all have very different playstyles that can then further be differentiated with a few button clicks for something almost brand new.

There's plenty of modern games out now that I wish had more lenient respecing tools (Valdis, Dust) so I could play them differently without having to start from scratch. Obviously, there are people who disagree (Khane), but it sure doesn't look like you're the majority anymore, if you ever were. If I could have played every class in an MMO at the same level as my highest level WITHOUT grinding, I gladly would have done so, as would probably 95%+ of the population. Intentional grinds to inflate game play times are not smart, cunning, ingenious, or even fun (usually). They're intentional grinds designed to artificially inflate game played times.

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There is a respec guy in valdis. Or I should say there is now, from what I understand he didn't always exist and they patched him in. Not sure if you can reach it with ice pillar + casting an air spell because I learned that trick after I had already gotten ice pillar and air jump, which you can definitely reach him with those two. But he is just east of the first city, tagrum I believe it is. There are two paths leading out, jump on the higher platform and then jump back across towards the city to the higher platform. It costs 2 demon rubies and 2 angel sapphires i believe, but if you want to experiment for a bit obviously just don't save it so you can buy the respec again without having to farm the items.

Comparing an ARPG where it takes like 1 day to get back to end game while levelling to an MMO is ridiculous. I wouldn't enjoy having to re-level the same shit in an MMO, Diablo is a different story.

@Deathwing, originally in D2 and I believe even in LoD things like Tarnhelm, SOJ, Silks of the Victor etc dropped even in act 4 hell. So yes, you could use shit you found in end game while levelling up. In fact, even the best rare exceptionals (Ornate armor, etc) were equippable in the early 20s. The biggest hurdle was getting the stats requirement to wear them. I don't think I'm in the minority when I say I enjoyed rolling a new lightning sorceress or javazon to try new builds. Shit was fun and fast (i.e. it wasn't tedious).

Deathwing_sl said:

You're still conflating two separate points. You like being powerful, mowing shit down, and trying new builds. Who doesn't like doing that? You've erroneously attached that to rerolling a character every time you want to try a new build or piece of gear, so now you think rerolling is fun too. All Blizzard did was cut out the tedium. You can still try out new gear and specs, it just takes a lot less (meaningless)time. How is there a downside to this?

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You believe that's what I am doing, I am not confusing anything. When you try a new build it could potentially suck and it's much harder to gear for end game content than to throw on a couple easy to get uniques that give +skills at level 1. You will, 100% mow shit down while leveling up, even if the build is gimp end game. Switching specs does not offer that same insulation.

You can argue you spend less time figuring out a spec is shit that way but at least you get to experience some different content with an actual purpose (leveling a new character) rather than running the same shit you did for the last 100 paragon levels.

Throwing on all my +strength gear so I could wear shit that gave my character retarded power spikes at level 5 or 10 or 15 is engaging, interesting and to me, fun. Plotting out the skill tree for the level up to maximize damage and efficiency was fun. The act of unlocking new skills on the way that all of a sudden changed the way I was playing was interesting, engaging and fun. Being able to just unlock the skills you want, whack a couple mobs, decide you don't like it and try a different combination has its perks for some people. For me it's boring and uninspired and doesn't give me a reason to try new shit out

I've been gone so long who the hell knows what is priced what. Sorry fella.

I'll be checkin' things out as the AH deadline closer approaches (+xp gear etc).

There was almost always one spec to play that COMPLETELY was better than the others. If you loved vanilla D3 before MP/legendary buff in Inferno as a barb or monk you were high on drugs.

Deathwing_sl said:

You're still conflating two separate points. You like being powerful, mowing shit down, and trying new builds. Who doesn't like doing that? You've erroneously attached that to rerolling a character every time you want to try a new build or piece of gear, so now you think rerolling is fun too. All Blizzard did was cut out the tedium. You can still try out new gear and specs, it just takes a lot less (meaningless)time. How is there a downside to this?

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You are a pretty funny guy. At what point do you consider a game to be a game, and not tedious? Why do you think they have levels and items in these games at all? After all it's just so fucking tedious farming them and gaining them. I'll let you figure it out....

You're splitting hairs and trying to define what I find fun for me as if I'm too stupid to know. Yes, what I explained was fun to me. I never claimed you were full of shit with what you think is fun, why are you trying to claim that I just don't realize what was or wasn't fun? I'm not retarded, I can separate the leveling process from simply wrecking shit. I explained why I thought it was fun, you don't agree... fine. But come on with the "Nah you just don't get it, you don't know what it was that was really fun for you".

BTW, you guys that really *NEED* character progression. Man up, take a screenshot of your account with 10 level 60 barbs. The game will let you reroll to your heart's content.

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Let's not get carried away. You know there is a major difference between the leveling process in D2 and the leveling process in D3. You were travelling down different skill trees each time you started a new character and potentially using different gear. D3 is a completely different style. I actually did try this at release, there was no point in doing so. There was a clear, definite point to doing it in D2. That alone made it worthwhile.

It isn't even about character progression, it's about mechanics I as a player feel are worth my time and offer a playstyle I enjoy.

How many hours should you get out of a game for 60$?

I got more from D3 than other titles I can think of that year. I even made some money.

I did start at that point. You just wanted to act like your opinion is fact and I wasn't smart enough to realize what mechanics I enjoyed and why. Whatever, I don't give a shit. I haven't played this game since a month after release I just came in here to see what the scoop was with the expansion and if it sounded interesting enough to buy.

You are way too literal sometimes. You make people spell out exactly in no uncertain terms what you already know they are saying. Insufferable engineering type.

Goddamn dude... trollish because my opinion differed from yours about why I prefer D2s sytem to D3s? You're bordering on the Pantheon thread levels of ridiculous. I suppose me saying I had no fun replaying the same character class in D3 because there was literally no point is agreeing with your opinion though, in some world somewhere.

My original post wasn't even trying to derail the conversation to D2, it was just useful as an example for the point I was trying to make. I enjoy releveling rather than max level free respecs in an ARPG type game where leveling is fast, easy and fun because of the game's setup and playstyle. I disagreed that it was tedious and in fact could be enjoyable.

One thing I like about D3, and I don't think this will change at all, is the ease of access to play the game. If you want to just smash mobs you can do it within seconds of entering the game. This is appreciated in my sometimes very limited play times as a new father.

Of course if I want to get more involved, and setup some Crypt runs, or something like that, it might take some more time, but it doesn't have too.

I suppose most would consider that "grindy", but for me, in my situation, I appreciate the ability to do that.

Maybe the randomly generated areas will be just as easy to access in the expansion.