Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Chris · Mar 31, 2023

jayrebb said:
Not wrong.

Immortal was pay2win, and people who were playing seriously stopped buying the battlepass. We're talking about something that'd translate to nearly 0 advantage over another player.

If you understood the system you'd understand how Blizzard can claim there's no power on the pass. The Immortal pass became a joke even if you wanted to buy it. The currency could have been argued to have 0 power from day 1. And it did.

There's ways to put weak currency rewards on the pass that some might consider adding to player power. It amounted to absolutely nothing in Immortal compared to a normal free pass. Near identical, yet not.

Chris can attest to more on that.

They had a couple of battlepasses and the main one had gems on it, which is player power.

jayrebb · Mar 31, 2023

Chris said:
They a couple of battlepasses and the main one had gems on it, which is player power.

I just remembered that as well. There was early game power on the pass gained from combining small gems into big gems.

As seasons rolled on, it was eclipsed and just sort of became irrelevant. I think by season 2 or 3 even it was already considered an infinitesimal difference and nobody cared. You could technically get more gems through other means. Although the battlepass gems were a decent boost at launch.

Argarth · Mar 31, 2023

jayrebb said:
Not wrong.

Immortal was pay2win, and people who were playing seriously stopped buying the battlepass. We're talking about something that'd translate to nearly 0 advantage over another player.

If you understood the system you'd understand how Blizzard can claim there's no power on the pass. The Immortal pass became a joke even if you wanted to buy it. The currency could have been argued to have 0 power from day 1. And it did.

There's ways to put weak currency rewards on the pass that some might consider adding to player power. It amounted to absolutely nothing in Immortal compared to a normal free pass. Near identical, yet not.

Chris can attest to more on that.

You've missed the point. It's either power or it's not. They're either lying or they're not. What is there to discuss?

jayrebb · Mar 31, 2023

Argarth said:
You've missed the point. It's either power or it's not. They're either lying or they're not. What is there to discuss?

I think you've missed the point. When Blizzard was pressed on Immortal pay2win, they lawyered the definition and released an official statement saying "We have never sold gear, and will never sell player equipment as a company. We never sold acquired droppable gear".

So when I say probably delusional, that's based on real-world shucking and dodging by these wormy Blizzard execs who twisted the definition of pay2win for optics. Skeptics have to ask what is Blizzard's definition of "power"? Is it as big of a departure from their definition of "pay2win" when C-suit executives claimed no gear was sold and it's nothing to worry about.

Cinge · Mar 31, 2023

I can see the materials for upgrading items being in the pass. A few hundred here or there, when you need thousands to upgrade. And you get alot just salvaging as you go. So a chunk of them over the time of a pass might give you one extra upgrade compared not doing it at all. Slightly helpful in the short term but nothing in the long term.

If its like other games with passes, you get a few hundred free and then the pay pass gives you the same amount again.

Passes are rarely worth it. The good ones give you currency to buy the pass next season or enough cosmetics to easily cover the cost of said pass. But those seem to be going by the wayside as these companies get more and more greedy. I just skip them these days, even in free games.

Will see, could just be cosmetics, a reason they added things like mounts. Could be enough with mounts, armor skins,weapon skins, pets to just be cosmetics. Especially if they just take the things that came in d3 season journey and stick them in the pass. I wouldn't trust any developer though saying "its only cosmetics" until you see for yourself.

j00t · Mar 31, 2023

Utnayan said:
Haha! I worked at Software Etc when I was in high school and the 1st year of college - every once in a while they would bring me over to the gamestop at MoA.

One time I was given a Nintendo Apron and paid $5.00 an hour to play Super Castlevania on the SNES. I was the world's first streamer - technically.

The check out program was hilarious. Sign out a game, copy it, bring it back, shrink wrap it, sold as new. Oh hey a 3DO? We can check that out too? Sweet! And during downtimes you are playing Magic The Gathering with your co worker. (Revision set back then - Ice Age was just coming out)

Those were the days. Learned also to never date chicks that worked in the mall - 3 dates - all were nuts. Especially the ones that worked in the Candy Shop or Movie Theaters.

dude you're so right. there was a chick who worked at haagan dasz that i got along with. i thought about asking her out but i had some weird six sense telling me not to. she ended up dating someone else at the mall i knew and he just had horror story after horror story.

Argarth · Mar 31, 2023

oops double

Argarth · Mar 31, 2023

jayrebb said:
I think you've missed the point. When Blizzard was pressed on Immortal pay2win, they lawyered the definition and released an official statement saying "We have never sold gear, and will never sell player equipment as a company. We never sold acquired droppable gear".

So when I say probably delusional, that's based on real-world shucking and dodging by these wormy Blizzard execs who twisted the definition of pay2win for optics. Skeptics have to ask what is Blizzard's definition of "power"? Is it as big of a departure from their definition of "pay2win" when C-suit executives claimed no gear was sold and it's nothing to worry about.

I couldn't give the tiniest fuck anymore about what was said, or by whom, with regard to DI, WoW, or anything else from Blizzard's past at this point in my life.

I'm only interested in D4. They have been crystal clear about how and why D4 will be monetised, and we all know what "player power" means. We will be the judges, not them.

Show me a single shred of evidence that they are selling anything in D4 that WE would call player power. Otherwise there's nothing to discuss.

Nirgon · Mar 31, 2023

Buy this over produced, trite garbage and support Diablo Immoral Inc

Kneel before giant winged pink WOMAN!!

Mr Creed · Mar 31, 2023

Argarth said:
I couldn't give the tiniest fuck anymore about what was said, or by whom, with regard to DI, WoW, or anything else from Blizzard's past at this point in my life.

I'm only interested in D4. They have been crystal clear about how and why D4 will be monetised, and we all know what "player power" means. We will be the judges, not them.

Show me a single shred of evidence that they are selling anything in D4 that WE would call player power. Otherwise there's nothing to discuss.

Unless we can enforce it, our definition is meaningless.

You emphasize that Blizzard claims to not sell power as the core of your position. Unless you also provide Blizzard's definition of power, there is no discussion to be had. It's not something you or I decide after all, and even if our definition is different it does not force them to take back their claim.

That said, spazzing out about the BP is probably retarded anyway. If it has power, so what, as long as you can achieve the goals a seasons lays out without it. And whether that is the case will only be seen in the summer.

Hateyou · Mar 31, 2023

If the difference in soft power and hard power is as wide as the chasm between soft skips and hard skips in Haligtree then I’m out.

Penance · Mar 31, 2023

Hateyou said:
If the difference in soft power and hard power is as wide as the chasm between soft skips and hard skips in Haligtree then I’m out.

I dont understand this analogy?

Hateyou · Mar 31, 2023

Penance said:
I dont understand this analogy?

Exactly

TJT · Mar 31, 2023

If bliz is smart enough to just have their cash shop be limited to buying stash organizers and cosmetics a la POE they should be happy about the 10 million boxes they're about to sell. Then let the cash shop trickle in.

But they will be greedy fuckers somehow.

BoozeCube · Mar 31, 2023

TJT said:
If bliz is smart enough to just have their cash shop be limited to buying stash organizers and cosmetics a la POE they should be happy about the 10 million boxes they're about to sell. Then let the cash shop trickle in.

But they will be greedy fuckers somehow.

Inventory storage, mounts, barbie doll dress up clothes, probably materials, progression speed, quicker in game acquisition of items, any various levels of force multipliers to amplify your game play sessions. Time is money after all.

You can wallet rape hard core without directly adding loot boxes or giving away items directly and for some reason people will somehow pretend it's different and one way is ok when another is not.

Games as a business, so maximize your return is understandable but goddamn sometimes it's nice to simply buy a game and then own it and it be good without needing to tickle your asshole every couple hours for more.

Argarth · Mar 31, 2023

Mr Creed said:
Unless we can enforce it, our definition is meaningless.

You emphasize that Blizzard claims to not sell power as the core of your position. Unless you also provide Blizzard's definition of power, there is no discussion to be had. It's not something you or I decide after all, and even if our definition is different it does not force them to take back their claim.

That said, spazzing out about the BP is probably retarded anyway. If it has power, so what, as long as you can achieve the goals a seasons lays out without it. And whether that is the case will only be seen in the summer.

A consensus on the definition, at least in the case of D4, has apparently been reached.
That's why you don't see any more serious videos/blogs accusing Blizzard of turning D4 into a P2W fiasco like Immortal.
They've been asked all the questions, ad nauseum, and answered them to the satisfaction of the gaming public/press, at least in my case they have.
They could choose to avoid the subject, or double-talk if they were stupid enough. We vote with out wallets after all.

Once the conversation turns back to whether or not they're lying etc. well I'm out, what a pointless waste of time. As you said, the proof will be in the pudding.

TJT · Mar 31, 2023

As long as the cash shop items are limited to cock rings for your horse mount and at most inventory storage as a game modifier I won't complain. I just don't think for a single second that that is all there will be. Since we already know the game will have dailies and WoW format faction grinds and gatekeeping they will eventually start selling something to reduce that gatekeeping. They are already de facto selling a 4 day headstart .

Seasonal Battlepasses that go on for years that you need to buy every 90 days? Now that is something I do think is coming.

BoozeCube · Mar 31, 2023

Argarth said:
As you said, the proof will be in the pudding.

Penance · Mar 31, 2023

Argarth said:
A consensus on the definition, at least in the case of D4, has apparently been reached.
That's why you don't see any more serious videos/blogs accusing Blizzard of turning D4 into a P2W fiasco like Immortal.
They've been asked all the questions, ad nauseum, and answered them to the satisfaction of the gaming public/press, at least in my case they have.
They could choose to avoid the subject, or double-talk if they were stupid enough. We vote with out wallets after all.

Once the conversation turns back to whether or not they're lying etc. well I'm out, what a pointless waste of time. As you said, the proof will be in the pudding.

Probably the number 1 reason I'm holding out. I just don't trust them. So while the conversation if they are lying or not might be a waste of time, their trust worthiness bears some weight in the overall scheme of things.

Personally I'm expecting the ol bait n switch.

Another thing I could see is them doing is the long game where they don't add the hard power until the next season, or even next year, kinda like Archeage and thunderstruck logs.

TJT · Mar 31, 2023

Look at how effective selling a 4 day headstart was. Once you see streamers paying $100 to get to the "awesome stuff" past the 2 month faction grind gatekeeper casual Timmy won't be able to suck dick fast enough to pay blizzard for the privilege.

Diablo 4 / IV / IIII / Fore / Cope / Seethe

Potato del Grande

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

On the verandah

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

Silver Baronet of the Realm

On the verandah

On the verandah

Log Wizard

Too old for this shit

Not Great, Not Terrible

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Not Great, Not Terrible

Mr. Poopybutthole

The Wokest

On the verandah

Mr. Poopybutthole

The Wokest

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Mr. Poopybutthole