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Daidraco

Daidraco

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Mizake said:
What percent of players in D2 do you think PvPd regularly? How many PvP in the new D2 remaster? Sure some people did it to flex, but there wasn’t like a ladder or ranking system to chase. Do you honestly think there was more people pvping than doing Baal runs?

I already mentioned that purchasing rewards will be important for people who participate in PvP. I just think the percent of people who PvP in a game like Diablo is small. Most play the game for what it’s designed for, the PvE elements.

Also, you mentioned possibly missing out on valuable rewards. We don’t know yet exactly what the rewards will be, but I’m interested in knowing what you consider valuable. Take another Blizzard product like diablo immortal as an example.
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I didnt purchase the D2 remastered version, but I still have the base diablo, diablo 2, diablo 3, and now diablo 4. As far as I remember, I dont think any of them really offered much in the way of support for PVP. jayrebb jayrebb or Chris Chris know better than I about Diablo Immortal - but Immortal offered some kind of league system, pvp maps/modes, and some other shit that I just never looked into that was involved with PVP. Had good rewards iirc, but afaik, it wasnt "required" to progress your character. If D4 had that kind of stuff, and hell - I'd like to see a true "Arena" added as well - I think PVP would do pretty well in Diablo 4. Especially when gear sets are fully explored, etc. Full resistance to Lightning and Fire, so you just stomp a Sorcerer that is using the average Joe PVE Build.

We've got roughly two months before we can tear this thing a part. Most everyone I know is excited to get their hands on it. In fact, there are people that I didnt even know played games like that, that are getting D4 because they have a console version. I have no idea what the sales figures are going to look like - but this shit is going to be fucking massive.
 
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Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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The consoles and full crossplay will definitely send sales numbers way up.
 
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TJT

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Fyff said:
I have no issue at all with purchasing power in a PvE game. If people are that dumb that's on them. I do not measure my personal enjoyment by what someone else has.
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To make a good ARPG you must make the grind compelling.

Do you think Path of Exile would be a success if they sold keys to Uber Elder in the cash shop as opposed to getting there by playing the game?
 
Khane

Khane

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TJT said:
To make a good ARPG you must make the grind compelling.

Do you think Path of Exile would be a success if they sold keys to Uber Elder in the cash shop as opposed to getting there by playing the game?
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People mostly don't care about cash shops if the game is balanced around drops / access being reasonably attainable via playing. Marvel Heroes was a great example of this. You could buy every kind of boost imaginable but it was still very easy to progress without spending a dime. There were no timegates or artificial progression locks to speak of.

Blizzard doesn't operate that way though. They love timegates. It's kind of their thing. So if you can bypass timegates with money that has a big effect on players who don't want to pay to bypass. The whole game is built around trying to force players into the cash shop in those cases. Which sucks.
 
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TJT

TJT

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What caused Marvel Heroes to fail as a game? All I hear around here is that it was great.
 
Khane

Khane

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TJT said:
What caused Marvel Heroes to fail as a game? All I hear around here is that it was great.
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Brevik left, someone new was put in charge, the game went downhill quick and the company became embroiled in scandal which led to Marvel pulling the licensing
 
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ronne

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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This game is competing for Lost Ark players - all you need to do is go look at how the cash store and bundles/passes/weeklies work there. This is what will be coming to D4.
 
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Byr

Byr

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TJT said:
What caused Marvel Heroes to fail as a game? All I hear around here is that it was great.
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No real gameplay loop. You could gear out a character, which they made easier and easier to do, and then .... you could do it again with a new character. There were no goals other than grinding out a time gated shard to buy new heroes with. No sort of aspirational content to complete, no ladders, no competition in any form, etc.
 
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Fyff

Fyff

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TJT said:
What caused Marvel Heroes to fail as a game? All I hear around here is that it was great.
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It was a super fun, the license was up and renewing it was pretty expensive. When I logged on in the last days it was still pretty full.

As far as PoE goes, I believe we have differing opinions on the quality of the game and it's not worth going down that road.
 
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Brodhi

Brodhi

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Byr said:
No real gameplay loop. You could gear out a character, which they made easier and easier to do, and then .... you could do it again with a new character. There were no goals other than grinding out a time gated shard to buy new heroes with.
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This isn't true what-so-ever. The game didn't fail, it had nothing to do with lack of endgame (which it had) or no gameplay loops (what does this even mean), or licensing. It was at it's height of popularity, a new version of it was released on consoles which was successful towards the end (and it was a very good port). Disney shut the game studio down basically due to shit that had nothing to do with the game itself.
 
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Khane

Khane

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The license was pulled by Disney which forced Gazillion to close. The license was pulled because of missed content deadlines by Gazilliion related to movie tie ins that were part of their contract and the harassment claims which had employees leaving left and right.

But the game itself had been fun and had a healthy playerbase prior to that Dorhmann guy taking over and absolutely had an endgame loop, the omega system, and raids. It had a very healthy endgame and great replay value.
 
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Penance

Penance

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TBF they tried to slow the game down which didn't go well with the player base. Then marvel pulled the license so they never got to fix it but they were definitely in the middle of a downturn because of that change.

One of the worst changes to a game next to Secret World.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Brodhi said:
This isn't true what-so-ever. The game didn't fail, it had nothing to do with lack of endgame (which it had) or no gameplay loops (what does this even mean), or licensing. It was at it's height of popularity, a new version of it was released on consoles which was successful towards the end (and it was a very good port). Disney shut the game studio down basically due to shit that had nothing to do with the game itself.
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As far as I remember they released a couple of big stinker patches when they fucked over everyone's movement skills that got a lot of of ppl to leave and the game wasn't in the healthiest spot to begin with probably. I think the raid was a lukewarm success too? And they probably invested a bunch of money into that.

Was a pretty fun game, although a lot of heroes played the same with different visuals, and a fair few that were unique were also shit, I remember getting bored of new heroes after a while cause it either felt bad to play or same-ish.
 
rhinohelix

rhinohelix

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Pyros said:
As far as I remember they released a couple of big stinker patches when they fucked over everyone's movement skills that got a lot of of ppl to leave and the game wasn't in the healthiest spot to begin with probably. I think the raid was a lukewarm success too? And they probably invested a bunch of money into that.

Was a pretty fun game, although a lot of heroes played the same with different visuals, and a fair few that were unique were also shit, I remember getting bored of new heroes after a while cause it either felt bad to play or same-ish.
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Was an amazingly fun game, they were coming back after the changes and delays when Marvel yanked the license.

The Secret World was another really good game that Funcom never really gave the chance it should have gotten. Has any other company created more games with possibility and then strangled them with half-ass support and content than Funcom?
 
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Mizake

Mizake

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Khane said:
People mostly don't care about cash shops if the game is balanced around drops / access being reasonably attainable via playing. Marvel Heroes was a great example of this. You could buy every kind of boost imaginable but it was still very easy to progress without spending a dime. There were no timegates or artificial progression locks to speak of.

Blizzard doesn't operate that way though. They love timegates. It's kind of their thing. So if you can bypass timegates with money that has a big effect on players who don't want to pay to bypass. The whole game is built around trying to force players into the cash shop in those cases. Which sucks.
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Well, I would hope that Blizzard learned from D3 and the whole RMAH fiasco, but I guess time will tell. There has been no greater gating problem in the entire Diablo franchise imo than when they tried to adjust item drop rates to popularize the auction house. I really doubt they are going to repeat that mistake again, this time instead of the auction house it’s the tiered pay paths, but again, I’m not sure how many of the Blizzard D3 team members are still around to help create D4.
 
moonarchia

moonarchia

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Mizake said:
Well, I would hope that Blizzard learned from D3 and the whole RMAH fiasco, but I guess time will tell. There has been no greater gating problem in the entire Diablo franchise imo than when they tried to adjust item drop rates to popularize the auction house. I really doubt they are going to repeat that mistake again, this time instead of the auction house it’s the tiered pay paths, but again, I’m not sure how many of the Blizzard D3 team members are still around to help create D4.
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The answer to this is D3 season 28. They still have enough decent devs to implement some baller systems into an ancient game free of charge to fans. This would indicate they have those same devs or similar working on D4, which is a cause for hope. The beta was fun, and if they can make melee suck less, fix memory leaks, and generally make the game playable on older systems they are going to have a decent launch. I am looking forward to playing the full game.
 
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Chris

Chris

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Daidraco said:
I didnt purchase the D2 remastered version, but I still have the base diablo, diablo 2, diablo 3, and now diablo 4. As far as I remember, I dont think any of them really offered much in the way of support for PVP. jayrebb jayrebb or Chris Chris know better than I about Diablo Immortal - but Immortal offered some kind of league system, pvp maps/modes, and some other shit that I just never looked into that was involved with PVP. Had good rewards iirc, but afaik, it wasnt "required" to progress your character. If D4 had that kind of stuff, and hell - I'd like to see a true "Arena" added as well - I think PVP would do pretty well in Diablo 4. Especially when gear sets are fully explored, etc. Full resistance to Lightning and Fire, so you just stomp a Sorcerer that is using the average Joe PVE Build.

We've got roughly two months before we can tear this thing a part. Most everyone I know is excited to get their hands on it. In fact, there are people that I didnt even know played games like that, that are getting D4 because they have a console version. I have no idea what the sales figures are going to look like - but this shit is going to be fucking massive.
Click to expand...
Diablo Immortal had legitimately good group PvP modes until the P2W people showed up, then I stopped playing. It also had some unique cult like guild systems I enjoyed, like showing up at the clan HQ once a day at the same time to get buffs.

It was kinda required as you got legendaries from it, but nothing you couldn't get elsewhere.
 
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Bubbles

Bubbles

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Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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Mizake said:
Well, I would hope that Blizzard learned from D3 and the whole RMAH fiasco, but I guess time will tell. There has been no greater gating problem in the entire Diablo franchise imo than when they tried to adjust item drop rates to popularize the auction house. I really doubt they are going to repeat that mistake again, this time instead of the auction house it’s the tiered pay paths, but again, I’m not sure how many of the Blizzard D3 team members are still around to help create D4.
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The type of company modern Blizzard is never learns the lesson you want them to learn. they approach this product from an entirely different angle.

Diablo 3 was created as a box sale with expansion sales, and steady revenue through legal RMT. Yeah, that failed hard. But the lessons they obviously took are skin shops and season passes, not making a great game first and foremost. That is simply a secondary objective at this point, for anything coming out of that company. with Diablo 4 they are creating a passable game with great monetization, not the other way around.
 
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