DOTA 2

Pyros

Pyros

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Gadrel_sl said:
Why don't good players get matched with other good players like in LoL? That doesn't make any sense.
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They do quite often, they also get matched against people who have high rating but aren't as good as pros. Overall their rating and matching system seems to have too much variance, with the release hopefully they tighten it up since there's were more than enough people nowadays to find games quickly even if you don't make groups with people with fairly different skill levels. Back when I watched lol streams though most of the time it was still pros stomping pubs. Every now and then there would be 3-4 pros in the same game but other than that it was high rated people that got there from abusing OP champions non stop, playing a single good champion non stop or supports who duo queued a lot and stuff like that. There were rarely good games, a lot of it was just watch a pro stomp the shit out of his lane then snowball out of control even though he bought retarded items like AD katarina or whatever(might be good nowadays, that was like 3years ago).
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Gadrel_sl said:
I didn't mean to turn this into Dota vs LoL, sorry.
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It was more like dota=lol when it comes to pros streaming. And matchmaking being fairly shitty, that's just dota. They said they weren't too happy with the matchmaking so hopefully at some point they fix it. It's bad at every level too, newbies getting grouped with very high people, regardless of the fact that very high has plenty of terrible players, just shouldn't happen unless it's a smurf group queueing and stuff. You have new players doing the tutorial games and getting ingame with people with 2000-3000games played, that's just wrong. While they can learn something if the guy is feeling like being nice, mostly they'll get crushed really hard for no specific reason.
 
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Nutron_sl

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the main appeal of watching tournament games is seeing teamwork pushed to the limit and every player trying to play to the best of their abilities. Watching pros stream normal games is more akin to one guy goofing around dominating uncoordinated people. Some streamers like merlini use the opportunity to teach the viewer why he's doing what he's doing and what he's doing wrong, etc... Those are pretty good feed that get a lot of traction cause a lot of the advice translates directly to pub games where as sometimes in pro games, the strategy and play in place would never be possible in a pub game. Then you have streamers like sing sing that get a lot of viewers as well just because they are entertaining as hell to watch. But overall, I still feel there is much more entertainment and learning value to watching tournament games than watching pro streams.
 
Dandain

Dandain

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I really don't think that dota matchmaking is as bad as you suggest pyros - almost all those 2000 games played moments occur when there is a partial stack queueing into the system. Its like a challenger league lol player queueing with a bronze, leagues match making doesn't create a better game than dota's MM under that requirement. As many games and different skill level stacks as I've played with the system acts exactly how I expect it to in almost all situations. Given the players that I queue with I can accurately guess the bracket - and those games do play out for the people in the group about right in almost all cases. If the normal bracket players are bumped up too far they struggle mightily, if the game has enough normal players the vhigh players can solo carry with a hero like Lich. The channel stacks we've been forming since the spreadsheet - at least the ones I've been a part of are winning at probably a 60-65% rate overall - that includes stacks with 2-3-4-5 players and a spread of normal/vhigh/high all mixed - its all about controlling the relative mmr of the team - which is the same thing that happens in league - a duo queue into ranked gets +50 or +100 mmr added to the team purely based on the stack.

Just as a side note a lot of the newer and or normal bracket players have been a lot more social since we set up everything in game, if you're new to the game don't be afraid to queue with some of the channel vets.
 
Cyni

Cyni

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I actually disagree Nutron, the only stream i feel is worthwhile for new players/players wanting to improve as fast as possible would be streams like Merlini's.

When do you remember games in normal/high/even low vhigh, ever looking anything like pro games? People dont support, if they do they fight you for last hits, they sure as hell dont sit outside of xp range of the carry... No wards, no counterwards, very rare dust, the list goes on. I watch pro level games to see the teamwork for sure, but its not like im picking up any specific strategies I can apply in my games i'll play later that night... if I tried to play like they do I imagine i'd get bitched at HARD by pugs. Hahah.
 
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ohmgee_sl

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I think its to many tournaments at same time to play and stream would burn out super fast. Also the only streamers are Dread Dendi Merlini and late at night Eg ethugs + a bunch of players no one really wants to watch.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Cyni_sl said:
I actually disagree Nutron, the only stream i feel is worthwhile for new players/players wanting to improve as fast as possible would be streams like Merlini's.

When do you remember games in normal/high/even low vhigh, ever looking anything like pro games? People dont support, if they do they fight you for last hits, they sure as hell dont sit outside of xp range of the carry... No wards, no counterwards, very rare dust, the list goes on. I watch pro level games to see the teamwork for sure, but its not like im picking up any specific strategies I can apply in my games i'll play later that night... if I tried to play like they do I imagine i'd get bitched at HARD by pugs. Hahah.
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I agree that what you see in a pro game isn't necessarily useful material to learn how to play the game, but I don't feel that's necessarily a concern, nor an absolute truth. I started watching pro games early when I started playing and yeah I didn't learn all that much other than seeing item picks for certain heroes and stuff like that, but it was still very enjoyable and also a good idea of what can be done once you're good at the game, something to strive for. I think it was just fun to watch pros play even if I couldn't relate directly to the experience, when you see someone catching 5 in a black hole or a team coming back from a huge deficit or someone winning their lane so fucking hard with a non standard hero and shit like that, it's fun to watch.
 
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Nutron_sl

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Cyni_sl said:
I actually disagree Nutron, the only stream i feel is worthwhile for new players/players wanting to improve as fast as possible would be streams like Merlini's.

When do you remember games in normal/high/even low vhigh, ever looking anything like pro games? People dont support, if they do they fight you for last hits, they sure as hell dont sit outside of xp range of the carry... No wards, no counterwards, very rare dust, the list goes on. I watch pro level games to see the teamwork for sure, but its not like im picking up any specific strategies I can apply in my games i'll play later that night... if I tried to play like they do I imagine i'd get bitched at HARD by pugs. Hahah.
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That's basicaly what I wrote except for the part where you wont apply what you see in pro games. You will overall learn more from pros streaming solo when you are starting out, but as soon as you have basic mechanics down, you will learn a lot more from watching tournament play.
 
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Pinch_sl

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Whose bright idea was it over at Valve to remove solo queueing? My games today: leaver on my team, leaver on the opponent's team, against a 4 man stack, against a 3 man stack. AKA free loss, free win, free loss, free loss. Not a single game was in question after the first 5 minutes.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Pinch_sl said:
Whose bright idea was it over at Valve to remove solo queueing? My games today: leaver on my team, leaver on the opponent's team, against a 4 man stack, against a 3 man stack. AKA free loss, free win, free loss, free loss. Not a single game was in question after the first 5 minutes.
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You can still solo queue, but the option is in a semi hidden spot now because who knows. Check Locations, it has the Solo Queue box you can tick. I've had a lot of shitty games today too, but mostly I think it's the combination of new patch, release and weekend. I had a fucking blink first abaddon in one of my game, shit doesn't even make sense.

Oh also been playing Abaddon as much as I could(lots of instapickers), so far I'm very pleased. While his laning is fairly average offensively, I've kept my carry from dying more than once and turned fights around when people pop the shield and shit. What's really great is when you get near 25-30mins or so and you're lvl 11ish so you have maxed coil and shield, that's when it gets really fun. So far every game I've gotten to that stage without losing too badly(but still losing most of them), we turned it around during teamfights. Giving people an effective 400-600health when they're under focus while also removing stuns from them is like godlike, you can't save everyone but the amount of time they waste killing a single person in the fight makes you win a skewed fight pretty easily. Then when you push you can top everyone off to full health and be ready for more. What I really love is his mana consumption, I ran out of mana like once or twice and mostly before I get arcane boots and shit. Great hero imo.
 
Chysamere

Chysamere

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Pyros_sl said:
You can still solo queue, but the option is in a semi hidden spot now because who knows. Check Locations, it has the Solo Queue box you can tick. I've had a lot of shitty games today too, but mostly I think it's the combination of new patch, release and weekend. I had a fucking blink first abaddon in one of my game, shit doesn't even make sense.
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I see your blink first abaddon and raise you a shield spamming abaddon duo laning with my gyro who pushed the lane and took my farm and went on to build battlefury then heart.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Chysamere_sl said:
I see your blink first abaddon and raise you a shield spamming abaddon duo laning with my gyro who pushed the lane and took my farm and went on to build battlefury then heart.
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Yeah carry abaddon had a few but see I wouldn't mind so much because they're doing dmg and shit so the item kinda makes sense, but blink dagger is so awful especially since I'm pretty sure in dota2 dmg you take with your ult on still puts blink on cooldown(it doesn't in dota1) so you can't even use it to escape. He had it super quick(for an abaddon) too, like 14mins blink with phase boots or some shit cause he got a few early kills. And then it took him until 30mins to finish his fucking meka cause he kept dying.

So far I've only been building support, same build everytime, arcane into urn into game is over and I'm a poor ass support. Spamming sentries and obs rest of the time. I got a meka once while we were working on the ancient but I didn't pick it up. And I got a vlad in another game for the last push. Still, I've had very low deaths counts in all these games, a lot of the teamfights people just ignore me, or they attack me then they remember ah yeah the ult, it procs and they just focus someone else and I walk away and keep healing.
 
Gankak

Gankak

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Since I don't solo queue and have All Pick selected I haven't run into an abaddon yet. But the things you guys describe are normal for all kinds of heros in my normal queue.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Gankak_sl said:
Since I don't solo queue and have All Pick selected I haven't run into an abaddon yet. But the things you guys describe are normal for all kinds of heros in my normal queue.
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Nvm misread that.

He's#4 on win ratein pubs so far, so even though some ppl are building whatever, I guess he's still doing fine.
 
Crone

Crone

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I don't know how you guys stick to a few heroes to get good at them. That's my problem in MOBA games. I play All Pick a lot just in the solo queue, and the game comes up, with "800" heroes poppin' off in my face, and I'm like Awww shit what do I want to play? And at my bottom of the barrel skill level if I have a good game with a hero, the next game will be terrible, and I'm like F that, playing someone else. lol

Still have fun, but I think I just gotta expect I won't be anywhere put in the pub league.
 
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Nutron_sl

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Random every game is how i learned. It's also more fun since I dislike picking the same thing over and over. It's hard at first cause you will suck, but there's no better way to learn imo.
 
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