DOTA 2

D for attempt, A for effort and too much effort making it a solid F overall.

Back to business: I'm dismayed that XBoct would feel that way after having a 1st place and a pair of "2nd place" international finishes. These can become anyone's game very quickly based on good drafting and sometimes luck (not true luck, but how things often play out). I mean look what happened to iG after the years? Still bad ass but they certainly don't carry NaVi's prestige.

Going even in games with Alliance (who was practically unbeatable) and then losing on a final game in a base race? I mean. You can't hate yourself for that.

I think this International has inspired a lot of people to come back to the game and even suffer through the BR/Russian trollings of USEast/West. I think heroes like Furion/Io are entirely beatable and add more elements to the game that are sorely lacking in the other MOBA's.

That said, I'm sure Icefrog saw everything that went down. I think the pudge hook/chen recall is clever use of mechanics. The hook is indeed held onto by pudge at the time he's recalled. If anything, I think it could use a graphical update that someone "hooked" by pudge should be shown as ported back to the fountain. You're taking chen and pudge who are in estimation entirely snow ball heroes in pub games that can be shut down hard in unskilled hands. The realm you begin to enter is what the SC2 team runs into a lot and that's how do we balance the game for the Grandmasters but also the Bronze at the same time. Personally? The numbers don't lie on wisp. And in lower tier games I see someone who can do the Furion shuffle stomp games almost by themselves. My vote is also in favor that a skilled individual on a "special" hero (like wisp/NP/invoker) should be able to completely change and possibly win the game if he's that damn good.

This is true in pub as well as pro FPS matches, and my vote would be a very minor nerf to Wisp if any and no changes to NP.

Players will go back to the drawing board and find a more sure fire ways to shut down Wisp/NP/Bat hard as shit I'm sure from here and add that to their arsenal of strats. Praise the meta.

Nirgon_sl said:

Back to business: I'm dismayed that XBoct would feel that way after having a 1st place and a pair of "2nd place" international finishes. These can become anyone's game very quickly based on good drafting and sometimes luck (not true luck, but how things often play out). I mean look what happened to iG after the years? Still bad ass but they certainly don't carry NaVi's prestige.

Going even in games with Alliance (who was practically unbeatable) and then losing on a final game in a base race? I mean. You can't hate yourself for that.

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It wasn't a base race...a base race is when 2 teams go for eachother's bases and see who gets it first. Alliance was the only one going for the throne.

Also Alliance didnt so much win as Na'Vi handed them the win on a gold platter. I won't repeat what I said about it here, but here's a an article from Dendi yesterday that pretty much confirms 100% my view on that last game and explains some of the internal strife:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/commen...at_went_wrong/

Just because they are #2 at an internationnal doesnt mean everyone gets along or that everyone is playing on the same level and has the same mindset for how to play the games.

Oh there's internal strife I'm sure. I'm just saying its pretty crazy for someone to be disappointed by their team's history. Then again, I don't have a team that fell short a couple hundred grand because of someone else's play.

It wasn't a true base race, no, but they were both far stretched across the map on each other's doorsteps. Shit happens.

Nirgon_sl said:

Oh there's internal strife I'm sure. I'm just saying its pretty crazy for someone to be disappointed by their team's history. Then again, I don't have a team that fell short a couple hundred grand because of someone else's play.

It wasn't a true base race, no, but they were both far stretched across the map on each other's doorsteps. Shit happens.

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Yes it was split pushing from Alliance, not a base race

I would be equally as pissed as xboct if not more after that travesty of a game 5.

A contributing member of an internationally recognized team, made it to second place in a major event, won a major cash prize, arguably the most popular team walking away from the event regardless of the loss. All things considered, for getting payed for something I enjoy I don't think I could complain one bit. Especially if I'm nest egging to start a real career if the current gaming trend ends.

Fixing problems within the team is one thing - having "internal strife" and causing drama is another. These kids are supposedly pros, act like it and use some humble pie about getting paid for playing a game with no true entry barrier (and having fun).

I'm sure every team in history of any sport hat was 2nd was damn happy about it, just look at the interviews afterwards, all smile and joy and celebrating...

Get real, these guys are profesionals that only want one thing, to be number one and win, no second place will do. Losers are happy with being 2nd, not winners ;D

Sure it's a nice loser package to get that much money and get recognition, but they threw away the game 5 in a pub fashion because their team had poor communication and strategy later in the game. So n ot only are they not recognized as the best team, they lost over 800k or so $ and they all know that game was a sure win if they didnt choke.

So i reiterate that none of them are terribly happy about the turn of events at the moment and rightfully so.

I'd make NP TP interrupt on damage.

if you have no stunners in your team, and if you're support (how many have a stun/interrupt? cm, sd, bane and vs) you have no way to stop a laughing porting NP to push the other lane, repeat ad nauseaum.

If you have no way to interrupt channeling effects, you fucked up at hero selection.

and uhh, your list is a little lacking there.

Earthshaker, Beastmaster, Treant, Wisp, Axe, SK, Tidehunter, Naga, Nyx, WR, Zeus, Lina, Shadow Shaman, Jakiro, Chen creep, Silencer, Ogre Magi, Rubick, Disruptor, Not sure if Kotl bliding light does it, Lich, Lion, Witch Doctor, Engima, Necrolyte, Warlock, Dazzle, Leshrac, Darkseer, Visage.

Wow I never knew vs and pudge couldn't buy blink. I get purge but vs? I guess to swap blink with no penalty. So what if they made furion not able to buy lothars?

whats this dendi movie

VS can't buy blink because you could blink to an unreachable spot and swap someone there. Unless the other team can reach them with a force staff, that player is instantly out of the fight.

Sutekh_sl said:

If you have no way to interrupt channeling effects, you fucked up at hero selection.

and uhh, your list is a little lacking there.

Earthshaker, Beastmaster, Treant, Wisp, Axe, SK, Tidehunter, Naga, Nyx, WR, Zeus, Lina, Shadow Shaman, Jakiro, Chen creep, Silencer, Ogre Magi, Rubick, Disruptor, Not sure if Kotl bliding light does it, Lich, Lion, Witch Doctor, Engima, Necrolyte, Warlock, Dazzle, Leshrac, Darkseer, Visage.

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You're right, there are plenty of heroes with stun. I guess if NP is stunned the cooldown on the spell (10 secs at level 4?) should trigger like it does for TPs. His TP is unaffected until he actually ports.

Obtenor_sl said:

You're right, there are plenty of heroes with stun. I guess if NP is stunned the cooldown on the spell (10 secs at level 4?) should trigger like it does for TPs. His TP is unaffected until he actually ports.

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Reduce hp on his trees + increase tp cooldown by 10 secs at max rank.

NP fixed.

Nutron_sl said:

Reduce hp on his trees + increase tp cooldown by 10 secs at max rank.

NP fixed.

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Considering how Lycan was fixed I'd say a treant nerf is very likely. Perhaps CD increase so you can't stack them either? The first real patch after TI3 should be interesting...

Jessper_sl said:

Considering how Lycan was fixed I'd say a treant nerf is very likely. Perhaps CD increase so you can't stack them either? The first real patch after TI3 should be interesting...

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Yeah the lycan nerf is exactly what I was basing it on, makes sense to me :>

NP major advantage in my opinion is that split pushing abuses newbness, and its not hard to do on prophet. And the second thing is a bit more meta, but some heroes are easier to amass huge cs with with less skill, so he is disproportionately powerful the worse you are at dota as far as the GPM stat. Basically what I mean is, you grab someone in normal bracket, you give them 30 minutes to amass items farming however they want. Prophet probably performs better than most of their heroes by a reasonable amount. He only has a 48% winrate in pubdota, that doesn't sound too broken to me, absolutely nothing like Centaur or Drow.

Dandain_sl said:

NP major advantage in my opinion is that split pushing abuses newbness, and its not hard to do on prophet. And the second thing is a bit more meta, but some heroes are easier to amass huge cs with with less skill, so he is disproportionately powerful the worse you are at dota as far as the GPM stat. Basically what I mean is, you grab someone in normal bracket, you give them 30 minutes to amass items farming however they want. Prophet probably performs better than most of their heroes by a reasonable amount. He only has a 48% winrate in pubdota, that doesn't sound too broken to me, absolutely nothing like Centaur or Drow.

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If he abuses newbness you'd expect him to have a higher winrate in pubdota, not lower. A lot of the things you said conflicted. He's completely broken and it's why he eats bans, and in H and VH he's annoying and effective in the hands of people who have hundreds of games played with him.

Split pushing is hard on pretty much everyone but tinker.

And his TP is on a 20 second cooldown at level 4. It's just if it gets interrupted by shuriken, a stun, or whatever, it should DEFINITELY go on CD. Instead he just keeps on trying to cast it. He doesn't even lose mana till after the spell is cast. It's unnecessary and if it got changed to a normal spell wherein if you got stunned it went on CD and you lost the mana, it would still be an absurdly powerful 20 second cooldown teleport.

Maybe just make each level of TP increase in mana quite a bit, possibly along with the CD on stun. Maybe the mana increase could be 50/100/150/200. Then he would at least put some thought and consideration TPing around the map, especially in the early/mid game when ganking is most common.