DOTA 2

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Dandain

Dandain

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Pyros_sl said:
Not sure what's snap commands.
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Just in regards to the last event camera focus bind, as well as double tapping select hero/control which snap the field of view centered to that unit as another tool to manipulate the camera.

In a crappy appeal to authority, if WASD was without downsides relative to edge panning I suspect at this point in the games lifespan that some WASD savant would be known or play in the pro scene in some capacity - Its also likely that if it had an advantage in RTS gaming it would also be a competitive control option. A gaming parallel would be fighting games. In the context of EVO the very best players with console controllers and sticks play at the same level. We don't see this in MOBA's - and league is far more relaxed about a WASD player relative to DOTA.

Anecdotally I think the time where the control scheme breaks down is those moments in dota where micromanaging the camera relative to an unfolding set of events is necessary while also wanting to use multiple skills/inventory items in an extremely short window. I absolutely could not hit a sequence of 3 keys (abilites/items with shift modifiers) and both hold depress some combination of WASD to manipulate the camera at the same time. You only have 5 fingers, these keystrokes all get backlogged into your left hand (unless you are a lefty). The only camera functions your left hand should be accessing are Recent Event, Double tap to center/select through selection hotkeys, and possible map position binds like runes. Your mouse hand has far more time to weave in the camera adjustments with the tools it has available.

However, these moments are not every moment in dota, this is more about a ceiling and below a certain level of play no one is hitting hotkeys with much speed or precision and the camera rarely if ever leaves the field of view of their hero. In these cases WASD is absolutely a wash. Eventually though, a reason you can lose is due to less efficient control of the game due to a restriction placed by a control choice (legacy vs more compact hotkeys for example).
 
Pyros

Pyros

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You can bind a bunch of stuff to your mouse too, I know people have those fancy mouses(mice?) now with a bunch of side buttons where you could bind all your items and what not. I know I don't really have the room to put 4 camera controls in my wasd area, it's already filled with shit, and I don't know if it'd be that good but I think overall it doesn't change that much, edge panning does take your mouse out of focus for a little while which compensates for some times you'd lose from having to press like W quickly to move the camera a bit before pressing your item key. I guess though it might be easier to adjust to precise aiming of an area/target when you know where your mouse is relative to that point(if you just edged panned up, your mouse is at the top of your screen, so you know exactly how much you need to go "down" to be in the right vertical region) rather than when you move the camera with your keyboard and your mouse stays the same relative to your screen positions but not to its previous position relative to the world(your mouse was over a creep, you move up, your mouse is now a bit up so you need to readjust).

I don't know, I don't see it being as vastly inferior. I don't see it as being superior either and that'd be why you wouldn't see anyone using it, because edge panning is so ingrained as the basic mechanic for RTS. The fighter pad/stick comparison isn't quite the same since pretty much every console players use a pad for everything, so it makes more sense to make it work this way, while in general camera control of any sort is done with the mouse while actual movement is done with wasd, so controlling camera with wasd isn't the norm(even in other genres).

Depending on how you setup your shit, it could lead to being inferior though, in which case you're better off learning the "right" way from the start, but I think with smart thinking, everything you do by edge panning could easily be replicated by a keyboard without a loss than doesn't come with a gain in another area. The fact you'd have to relearn everything makes it not worth it to swap without a solid positive gain though.
 
Dandain

Dandain

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Keep in mind WASD moves the camera in only 4 directions with a single key. To pan at an angle its two key presses simultaneously with holding. You can edgepan more fluidly in all 8 directions. You only have 5 fingers. How do you handle shift queuing. Pinky on Shift, The thumb is not being used on a camera control, so that means two of your three central fingers are stuck on camera movement keys when you need an angled pan. You might think that angular panning might not be that common, But the midlane is entirely an angled pan so the camera control will constantly require these combination presses or your field of view will absolutely move at a less efficient/slower rate than it would with a mouse.

I think my fighting game analogy is relevant, we are comparing two methods of controlling a highly competitive game. The question isn't if WASD can be sufficiently adequate, its about whether or not it becomes less than ideal by a measure that leads to a different result in a game. We can say something about controlling a fighting games that we can't say about Dota, and that's that absolutely - any edge or disadvantage a stick or a pad gives to a fighting game player is near enough personal preference that it is a non-factor in deciding the outcome at the highest levels of play.
 
Intrinsic

Intrinsic

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Meanwhile SFZ vs. C9 is at 155:40
C9 almost has megas while they've still got a T2.

edit: Also, International tickets on sale for $99 in two rounds starting March 27th at 10am PDT, second round 10pm PDT, both through Ticketmaster. No VIP direct sale tickets this year.
 
L

Luthair

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Anyone else finding there aren't really any interesting pro games these days? DAC had a few (now 6-weeks ago) but largely for me the tourney was on the dull side and since there have been a dearth of interesting match-ups.
 
Cyni

Cyni

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The 3h 21m C9 vs SFZ game didnt cut it for you?

There was another 100 min match today too...

Hard to cheer for a team these days though, way way way too many roster shuffles.
 
Burren

Burren

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Intrinsic_sl said:
Meanwhile SFZ vs. C9 is at 155:40
C9 almost has megas while they've still got a T2.

edit: Also, International tickets on sale for $99 in two rounds starting March 27th at 10am PDT, second round 10pm PDT, both through Ticketmaster. No VIP direct sale tickets this year.
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Is Valve going to limit tickets purchased per transaction, or do we just have to hope we can beat people running bots?
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Yeah, but there weren't really any big stakes matches, even MAS was mostly decided in advance with Empire and Ig slaughtering everybody. It's t2 teams fighting among each other for Starladder/The Summit/ESL in the EU, NA players are busy boosting their reshuffle rating and China plays some qualifiers but their games are pretty boring compared to EU/CIS slaughterhouse. I'm also pissed Secret is playing like 0 official matches over 3 weeks, probably the only team I bother to watch the game on youtube for, but EG/VG sometimes play interesting shit too.

There's also definitely going to be another patch before the major LANs hit, since there's a pretty consistent pattern to winning a game, but thank god the heroes below the top picks still keeps shifting. Aui said it pretty well: "the poorest player is the 5 on the winning team"

Team Tinker stopped being a joke, Alliance started winning and NiP/Asus are struggling to keep their position, so there are storylines to follow, you just need to dig a bit.

Techies in VG vs EHOME, but the casters are terrible:

 
L

Luthair

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The problem is that all the teams you mentioned are only facing each other (with inconsistent results) or more often playing T3 teams. There aren't high caliber matches occurring.

To be honest, I find Secret a bit dull, they pick from a pretty limited hero pool and strategy. Give me the TI4 era Cloud 9 when you had no idea wtf they were going to draft.
 
Paranoia

Paranoia

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first j4 rekt EG with his rubick play now PR is just fucking with C9 and c9 tbh has looked like a joke other times they look like the t1 team.

EE feed is real boyz
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Well, the comeback is real, I was pretty sure they were fucking dead, but EE warps reality. It's been ages since I saw tiny without a wisp, much less a carry veno.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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TI5 tickets go on sale tomorrow. This year, they will have 2 different sale times during the day. Just GA for $99...they mentioned there will be something different done for VIP this year.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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I don't play, but I love to watch tourneys. As such, quick question. What is with all the DCs lately I have seen? Are the Valve servers that bad? Seems odd for it to be ISP related or so many instances of connections going out due to random accidents.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Since most tournaments put in limits on how long the games can be paused for, I suspect at least some are due to DDOSing to tip the odds on d2lounge or similar sites, but otherwise it's business as usual. The other option is somebody wants the stream to catch up to see wards/position, but still, getting 10+ people from all over the world to have stable connection for hours is surprisingly difficult task.
 
Cinge

Cinge

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Wait, so people are somehow(I'm not that into how its done) Ddosing individual players just to win bets(which is what I assume d2lounge is after looking at it)? I again assume its Individual players because its not effecting everyone connected to that game most of the times I've seen(though occasionally I have seen both sides, including casters all DC or have to re-make games cause of problems).

Crazy.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Cinge_sl said:
Wait, so people are somehow(I'm not that into how its done) Ddosing individual players just to win bets(which is what I assume d2lounge is after looking at it)? I again assume its Individual players because its not effecting everyone connected to that game most of the times I've seen(though occasionally I have seen both sides, including casters all DC or have to re-make games cause of problems).

Crazy.
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Well sometimes it's the server/normal connection issues, but DDoSing is pretty common nowadays in any online competitive game it seems. Hearthstone tournaments tend to be streamed either several hours or even days after they're played because if they do it live, there's almost always one guy getting DDoSed at some point. It's just very easy to do once you know the IP of someone, and a lot of the players are terrible at keeping their IP safe(though not more so than anyone else, it's just no one gives a fuck about random people's IPs but pro players is something else).
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Skype is backbone of esport communication and it tells your IP to anybody who asks nicely. Most of the top teams run it through VPN or at least I hope so.
 
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