DOTA 2
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Kiroy
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Zaphid
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You wish
More like Reborn Episode 2
Anyway, it seems like Icefrog wants the talent trees to expand more, eventually, since only Invoker has the aoe deafening blast vs -15s on tornado and there are remarkably few ability changes for a major patch. I want to see how the new xp curve plays out, since reaching lvl 16+ on supports was pretty tough if you weren't surviving teamfights and Midas wasn't changed. On the other hand, all the cores got new toys, since reaching 25 on those is comparably pretty easy, but everybody got a stat nerf past lvl 16, since there are no stats anymore and those things add up. If I had to guess the meta, we will see the return of the gank/splitpush, since it maximizes xp gain for your cores and the shrines give you map control until you lose all t2s. That effectively nerfs 5man push until they get all 6 of your towers. Combine that with all the jungle changes promoting movement and I wouldn't be surprised to see double roamers come back.
More like Reborn Episode 2
Anyway, it seems like Icefrog wants the talent trees to expand more, eventually, since only Invoker has the aoe deafening blast vs -15s on tornado and there are remarkably few ability changes for a major patch. I want to see how the new xp curve plays out, since reaching lvl 16+ on supports was pretty tough if you weren't surviving teamfights and Midas wasn't changed. On the other hand, all the cores got new toys, since reaching 25 on those is comparably pretty easy, but everybody got a stat nerf past lvl 16, since there are no stats anymore and those things add up. If I had to guess the meta, we will see the return of the gank/splitpush, since it maximizes xp gain for your cores and the shrines give you map control until you lose all t2s. That effectively nerfs 5man push until they get all 6 of your towers. Combine that with all the jungle changes promoting movement and I wouldn't be surprised to see double roamers come back.
Kiroy
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Dandain
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I think all the sky is falling people should relax. The game is easier to pick up now, because the UI itself actually tells you things it used to hide and not tell you (ex what is or isn't dispellable). Additionally, other things that only higher tier players know well have been marginalized/trivialized or removed. Stacking ancients appears suicidal. Stacking normal jungle camps is greatly diminished, and fighting for runes, and stacking no longer happen at the same time. The jungles are all redesigned, there is a boatload of downhill/uphill in the new jungle and most of the camps are found in low ground areas. Which means that surprising someone doing a neutral camp without supportive vision should be far easier.
Stats being removed is also a buff to new people. Especially when the game would allow you to skill stats vs abilities or accidentally do that. In many ways the talents make up for the 9 levels of stats, which is almost 2 ultimate orbs worth of ability points. Talents that give 8% boosts to any given hero, can more effectively provide scaling to those heroes who do not benefit from raw +stats compared to others. Ex: Antimage gets far more out of the 18 agility than Rubick would get from 18 int. My guess is that the more powerful the state of the hero, the less insane their initial talents will be. I also expect supports to have a disproportionate amount of powerful talents, because raw stats in general are far less valuable to them than most other classes of hero. The burden of knowledge will be small, because I highly doubt picking talents are going to determine many dota games at anything other than the very highest tiers.
There is less ability to deny creeps, this makes fucking someone completely out of the offlanes probably harder at first glance. Offlaners also have bounty runes protected in the side jungle, and a medium camp to retreat to every other minute. This has the potential to be fucking not dota, or to be really really great.
This should help grow the game by having a better interface.
Stats being removed is also a buff to new people. Especially when the game would allow you to skill stats vs abilities or accidentally do that. In many ways the talents make up for the 9 levels of stats, which is almost 2 ultimate orbs worth of ability points. Talents that give 8% boosts to any given hero, can more effectively provide scaling to those heroes who do not benefit from raw +stats compared to others. Ex: Antimage gets far more out of the 18 agility than Rubick would get from 18 int. My guess is that the more powerful the state of the hero, the less insane their initial talents will be. I also expect supports to have a disproportionate amount of powerful talents, because raw stats in general are far less valuable to them than most other classes of hero. The burden of knowledge will be small, because I highly doubt picking talents are going to determine many dota games at anything other than the very highest tiers.
There is less ability to deny creeps, this makes fucking someone completely out of the offlanes probably harder at first glance. Offlaners also have bounty runes protected in the side jungle, and a medium camp to retreat to every other minute. This has the potential to be fucking not dota, or to be really really great.
This should help grow the game by having a better interface.
Kiroy
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That's going to get changed. It's retarded.
Funny how slacks called that out when he's so retarded haha. I'm enjoying watching his stream.
Intrinsic
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Had to leave to go see the nutcracker about the time the webpage came up so haven't been able to any streams, etc...
It looks like until things settle we'll see a shift towards more jungle action rather than lane? Or at least around the T2 / shrine timings. Then people will figure out more optional timings and rotations.
Not sure about it all though if it forces each side to more or less run a jungle hero. Takes away from the different lane set ups and makes that more static. Thinking LoL meta there, not in a sky is falling way just a point of comparison.
I think what Dandain pointed out about the stat gain vs talent on core or support is true. Has the potential to really help support power to give them something impactful. Want to see how it plays out. Drums support item?
It looks like until things settle we'll see a shift towards more jungle action rather than lane? Or at least around the T2 / shrine timings. Then people will figure out more optional timings and rotations.
Not sure about it all though if it forces each side to more or less run a jungle hero. Takes away from the different lane set ups and makes that more static. Thinking LoL meta there, not in a sky is falling way just a point of comparison.
I think what Dandain pointed out about the stat gain vs talent on core or support is true. Has the potential to really help support power to give them something impactful. Want to see how it plays out. Drums support item?
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Thing to remember about talents for supports is in a lot of games you're not getting the last, or even the 2nd to last one. They haven't changed that much about support xp that I can see, and it looks like they actually nerfed pulling with the way the new jungle works(just going off the notes, haven't tested, but 2mins creep spawns obviously means less pulls). Some of the supports have % xp low tier, but even the lowest tier is still lvl 10, which sometimes for supports will take 15mins to get to, so you already spent a good amount of the game not having the bonus. The xp is rescaled, but not in a massive amount that we'll see everyone reach last level like you see in LoL a lot more often, it said lvl 25 is now the equivalent of previous lvl 23, and honestly if I were to go and check how many games I reached 23 as a support, I doubt it'd be more than 5% of my games(unless midas).
And on newbie issues, both talents lines seem very strong in pretty much every case. So even if you pick randomly, you don't end up with like a major downside or whatever, they're not gain x lose y talents. After that, you mostly pick what makes sense for you in your game, and that should be fairly obvious. Dying a lot? Get some defensive stats. Support? Get the xp/gold gain stuff so you scale better. Only the lvl 25 talent tends to have a major impact on specific skills but most of them are still good regardless.
One of the best things for supports though: 3more inventory slots to put shitty wards and smokes in.
And on newbie issues, both talents lines seem very strong in pretty much every case. So even if you pick randomly, you don't end up with like a major downside or whatever, they're not gain x lose y talents. After that, you mostly pick what makes sense for you in your game, and that should be fairly obvious. Dying a lot? Get some defensive stats. Support? Get the xp/gold gain stuff so you scale better. Only the lvl 25 talent tends to have a major impact on specific skills but most of them are still good regardless.
One of the best things for supports though: 3more inventory slots to put shitty wards and smokes in.
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If you played Heroes of the Storm, they're basically moonwells, kinda. Basically, they're small buildings in the jungle that when right click, provide an aoe that gives very high regen(like fountain kinda). Cd is 5mins (it's a cd on the building so for the whole team) and they have backdoor protection until T2s are down I think? Or T1 not sure. Seems very useful for jungling or for offlaning(there's one right next to the secret shop for offlaners).