DOTA 2

Sutekh

Sutekh

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Really where's the downside of no invites and retaining it's current format? Having a large tournament for each region that consists of the Top 4 teams advancing to a secured position and the remainder having to fight it out further in a play-in section in Seattle on LAN.
 
Pyros

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,308
2,415
How do you deal with teams having international rosters, then you have players with shit pings playing against each other and shit for a qualification to TI, which is obviously a big deal. The point of the invites is they invite the top teams that have been performing well in the previous few months. They don't need a tournament to determine who's that cause there's already tournaments all the time and they use those tournaments to gauge teams. There's also the issue of having a tournament for the tournament, which would eat even more time from the other smaller tournaments.

I do like the idea of making it transparent, that said while there's a few points of contention every year, for the most part no one is really surprised at who's invited and who has to play the qualifiers.
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

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Pyros_sl said:
How do you deal with teams having international rosters, then you have players with shit pings playing against each other and shit for a qualification to TI, which is obviously a big deal. The point of the invites is they invite the top teams that have been performing well in the previous few months. They don't need a tournament to determine who's that cause there's already tournaments all the time and they use those tournaments to gauge teams. There's also the issue of having a tournament for the tournament, which would eat even more time from the other smaller tournaments.

I do like the idea of making it transparent, that said while there's a few points of contention every year, for the most part no one is really surprised at who's invited and who has to play the qualifiers.
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Sutekh_sl said:
Having a large tournament for each region that consists of the Top 4 teams advancing to a secured position and the remainder having to fight it out further in a play-in section in Seattle on LAN.
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I quoted the part that would talk about how you deal with teams have international rosters playing against each other.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

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Sutekh_sl said:
I quoted the part that would talk about how you deal with teams have international rosters playing against each other.
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So if a team has people from 2 NA and 3 from EU, they are at disadvantage since 2 people have shitty ping for the whole tournament ? Your solution doesn't solve anything and quite frankly, allows for some pretty scummy stuff, like DDOS and random crashes having huge impact. Or are you treating mixed teams as second class citizens, which is fucking retarded ? "Oh you are ragtag group of friends from all over the world ? Hope you get lucky in Seattle at the last moment ! "
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

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Zaphid_sl said:
So if a team has people from 2 NA and 3 from EU, they are at disadvantage since 2 people have shitty ping for the whole tournament ? Your solution doesn't solve anything and quite frankly, allows for some pretty scummy stuff, like DDOS and random crashes having huge impact. Or are you treating mixed teams as second class citizens, which is fucking retarded ? "Oh you are ragtag group of friends from all over the world ? Hope you get lucky in Seattle at the last moment ! "
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How is this any different than the current regional qualifier tournaments, or ANY online tournament for that matter? The only qualifier that was on LAN was China I believe.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
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Sutekh_sl said:
How is this any different than the current regional qualifier tournaments, or ANY online tournament for that matter? The only qualifier that was on LAN was China I believe.
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Because all of the invited teams were performing on multiple tournaments, both online and offline, over the whole year. Your idea is "one qualifier to rule them all" which is pretty hard to pull off without any problems. Besides, I don't think anyone disagrees with teams invited to the main event, so their current system works and changing it has no clear benefit.
 
faille

faille

Molten Core Raider
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Seems like subs should be incorporate to account for any injury, health or just unforeseen circumstances, but would you also allow tactical substitutions? Swapping players in and out of different matches during the tournament because they might match up better?
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

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Zaphid_sl said:
Because all of the invited teams were performing on multiple tournaments, both online and offline, over the whole year. Your idea is "one qualifier to rule them all" which is pretty hard to pull off without any problems. Besides, I don't think anyone disagrees with teams invited to the main event, so their current system works and changing it has no clear benefit.
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You make one point and then completely ignore the point you made and say something different?

You asked if I was treating teams that have people in different sections of the world as second class citizens because of lag and I asked how that's different than what's currently happening.
 
T

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
faille_sl said:
Seems like subs should be incorporate to account for any injury, health or just unforeseen circumstances, but would you also allow tactical substitutions? Swapping players in and out of different matches during the tournament because they might match up better?
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I don't see why not. Real sports do it all the time.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Real sports do, but they usually have a system in place to limit what you can do and what the consequences are. Valve needs to setup a rule system for this IMO rather than using a case-by-case system for evaluation.
 
Nite1

Nite1

<WoW Guild Officer>
786
65
I just got caught up on all the era/fnatic drama and it kind of sours me a bit on fnatic and esports in general. Here's a guy that has a real medical issue who feels like his friends and company are trying to force him out of the international and then probably has enough pressure put on him to write the latest pro fnatic stance...this kid should be focused on recovery w the promise that if he can hes playing and if he medically cant go then a sub should be aloud and that should be it. It seems like now fnatic wants him out bc they feel they have a better chance w excaliber simply bc they've been playing together while hes sidelined....
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

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Fnatic makes a tweet that says something like "YOU WANT TRANSPARENCY WE'LL SHOW IT TO YOU" and then deletes it immediately. What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Maybe they thought they would provide something clever/witty, then realize that would be fucking dumb because 10 million dollar prize pool and you don't bite the hand feeding you.
 
C

Carino

58
0
What a clusterfuck. Looks like the outcome will be Era playing in TI4, which no one wants. If Era hadn't sent that first email to Valve everything would have been fine, but he's an 18 year old kid so you can't really expect him to realize the repercussions of writing an email like that. Moral of the story: always resolve things at the lowest possible level, and only escalate things if there is no other option.

Also, this whole thing has reminded me just how terrible the dota2 reddit is.
 
L

Luthair

Lord Nagafen Raider
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Fight_sl said:
Valve made the correct decision, but spilling the beans on confidential emails is very poor judgement.

If Era is on the outside looking in, saying "hey, I am healthy and cleared to play. I WANT TO PLAY"... well then, you have to take the 5 guys that qualified the team for the tournament. That is just common sense. It sure appears that Fnatic feels like they found a better player and they are trying to pull some funny business.

They may not like Era or trust him, but if a doctor says he is good to go and he says the same, well then dance with the girl you brought to the prom.
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I would disagree, from the emails note that Era is not cleared to bootcamp and hasn't played with the team since DH Bucharest (mid-may). By the start of TI4 it will have been 2-months since he's been able to play with the other 4, its not really surprising that they expect Excalibur would provide a better showing in the circumstances despite Era being a better player (or at least a more experienced and versatile carry).

Short of winning TI4 with Era, I can't imagine Fnatic will keep him given the direct emails to Valve unless the other 4-players threaten to walk at the same time.
 
Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Sutekh_sl said:
You make one point and then completely ignore the point you made and say something different?

You asked if I was treating teams that have people in different sections of the world as second class citizens because of lag and I asked how that's different than what's currently happening.
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Ok, all of my points in fun sized format:

1)Online tournaments are prone to technical difficulties, especially with higher stakes.

2)Multiple tournaments are better for accurate picture of team's strength.

3)Teams with players from multiple continents have a disadvantage when playing online and don't give you the highest level games.

4)Offline LAN events are more difficult to run, take a lot more time and you are taking time away from all the other LAN events that happen annually around May/June.

Fnatic seems to forget that Valve invited 5 players, not Fnatic and they are trying pretty hard to get the community on their side. While it sucks to see your chance at top place diminish, this is turning into a game of he said she said. Where's the ESEX article when you need one ?
 
Sutekh

Sutekh

Blackwing Lair Raider
7,489
107
Zaphid_sl said:
Ok, all of my points in fun sized format:

1)Online tournaments are prone to technical difficulties, especially with higher stakes.

2)Multiple tournaments are better for accurate picture of team's strength.

3)Teams with players from multiple continents have a disadvantage when playing online and don't give you the highest level games.

4)Offline LAN events are more difficult to run, take a lot more time and you are taking time away from all the other LAN events that happen annually around May/June.

Fnatic seems to forget that Valve invited 5 players, not Fnatic and they are trying pretty hard to get the community on their side. While it sucks to see your chance at top place diminish, this is turning into a game of he said she said. Where's the ESEX article when you need one ?
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The current qualifiers are online, what makes the secured spots more important than the qualifiers?

Multiple tournaments give an accurate picture of how a team was playing during that tournament, sometimes teams take first place and sometimes they're knocked out in the first round (EG). There's a shit ton of things that can play into the outcomes that change in between the time the invites go out and the international starts.

Teams with players from multiple continents will always have a disadvantage in whatever they do, TI is no different and doesn't discriminate. If it's that big of a problem, maybe don't form your team like a moron.

Ok.
 
G

gmstbfla_sl

shitlord
141
0
I'm fine with the way it is now. It's not like subjective qualification of teams is unheard of in real sports. I don't really know of any "bubble" team that honestly deserves to go. Valve is getting it right for the most part, and they are still giving the non-invited teams an objective path towards qualification. Also, since the seeding of teams is determined in the tournament itself, you don't need any objective point system during the year to help determine that fairly.

As for the Fnatic pitchforking--players don't get to give away their seat at the tournament. The 5 man group is invited. If you are medically cleared to play and choose not to, your team will be disqualified, end of story.
 
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