EQ Never

Skanda_sl said:

Am I the only one who doesn't really give a flying fuck about the lore in EQ? I'm much more worried about SoE's ability to deliver compelling game play/mechanics.

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No I expect a large majority don't care at all about lore. If SoE thought even a large minority cared about EQ lore then SoE would not have done what they did with EQN lore. This is the case of a small but vocal minority being upset with EQN lore.

Ukerric_sl said:

I played WoW from Feb '05, when it released in Europe, along with 80% of my last EQ guild, until end of '12. During those 7 and a half years, I never canceled once. I did check AOC... during off-raiding nights in WoW, and that's pretty much all.

In your humble opinion: which game appear to be better?

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I played Vanguard longer than EQ, and EQ longer than WoW, and WoW longer than LOTRO and LOTRO longer than FFXI and FFXI longer than Rift. To each his own.

Still playing EQ canceled a few times but have only missed about a year of subscription time sense I started playing in 2000.

Played WoW for two months in Vanilla, another two months in Burning Crusade, about a month of Lich King, and never got around to playing in Cataclysm even though I had intended to.

Vanguard I lasted about three days before I quit that was during FTP launch.

Ukerric_sl said:

In your humble opinion: which game appear to be better?

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Said this before, but will say it again.

WoW was the better "game". EQ was the better MMO.

Since EQ, the "game" is what has been focused on. Everything to make it more "fun", which has been translated into making things faster, more accessible, easier, solo friendly. YOUR experience, instead of you are in OUR world now. EQN is now taking this YOUR experience to the ultimate by trying to cater to every single major theme that is popular right now.

I am with the other people here who say that there reallyisa market for a game that gave risk vs reward in the same way EQ did. That is not to say to implement all design elements of EQ, but the risk in mmos is something that has been tossed out the window to be nothing more than an inconvenient/harsh repair bill. Not you dying that sucks, but the imaginary tear in your robe.... so fing stupid.

WoW was a natural successor to EQ. And it was after POK, around 04. When WoW and EQ2 was released (both released in November 04 I think), EQ took a massive hit. There were new games, and people wanted to try those. And as stated, WoW was a clearly superior "game". It did not hold my attention though, at all. For some it did, that managed to keep their guilds, mine fell apart due to the idiotic decision of splitting servers.

However, stating that nobody cares about a game with mechanics like EQ again because WoW came around is just mind boggling in how shortsighted people are. "Oh this is the new way, we have to go the new way, this was popular so now everything needs to be like that, that is obvious". Vast, vast, VAST, majority of mmo players today have never tried original EQ. They do not know what it did, they do not know the differences. However, the mmo market is nearly 30x as large today as it was during EQ. Along the same timeline now, we have seen that Demon and Dark Souls have become massive hits in the west, with a risk vs reward system that is far more in line with EQ than WoW or any recent mmo.

Market is larger now, and while making a game for us old timers might not be profitable (not enough of us left that care about mmos, we are old now), the mmo space has grown, gaming in itself has grown mainstream. Releasing a "hard" mmo now, with death penalties and an element of risk again, you being in a world rather than a game. I see no reason why that would not appeal to others as it did to me. Because I tried it, I know what is missing from mmos. But discussing it is nigh impossible because what I and others ask for sound absolutely insane when you put the bulletpoints alone, outside of the game. Longer travel, longer lasting fights (be able to communicate), interdependency between classes (need to ask for help), dying sucks (makes you want to ask for help). A world that lets you make mistakes, and punishes you for making them, so you learn. One that does that from the beginning instead of only at end game, because getting a tear in your epic robe is so much more expensive to fix.....

Can't say that people do not want EQ, when nobdoy knows what the hell it was. The people of you who left for WoW and found it better all around, grats. You have WoW and every damn mmo made after it catering to you already. However, there are other viewpoints, but not a damn game being made for them, because making a game that does not cater to the majority has not been done since EQ tried to just create something that catered to the devs making it. Now money and profit rules with investors all chasing WoW numbers releasing game, after game, after game, after game, all with a few months retention rate. Not a one is making a "world". Put the mmo back in mmorpgs. The way to do that is to implement a reason and a need for people to communicate with eachother. A feature that is lessened more and more with each passing mmo. Faster, faster, faster! Kill all the things with massive spell effects while you continuously move forward, because downtime is the devil, in a group joined by a lfg tool, a few button clicks, and no need to talk to people, because everyone is responsible for themselves! Maybe toss is a "coool" or "awesome dude!1one!" as you see someone do a graphically intensive whirlwind attack.

You ask me what the better game was, WoW, ask me what the better experience was, EQ. Just as WoW was miles ahead of EQ in the game spectre, EQ was miles ahead in the community aspect and MMO parts of it. Since then, the community part has been lost. Inter-connectivity has been lost to adventuring and left only to crafting. It is downright idiotic to say that making a MMORPG again would not work, when we have not seen a game focus on the MMO part since EQ. It has all been mmoRPG, to the point now where the mmo part is nearly optional. More like RPG games with lots of other characters running around at the same time, but you hardly ever interact with them, and can avoid it completely if you want to.

Bah humbug I say to game development now. Bah humbug.

Dark Souls is a difficult game and it was launched at a time when single player games had become very easy. It has seen a lot of success so I think that a difficult MMO might have success too.

Fingz_sl said:

Dark Souls is a difficult game and it was launched at a time when single player games had become very easy. It has seen a lot of success so I think that a difficult MMO might have success too.

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Isn't Dark Souls a single player game? I don't think it's fair or accurate to draw comparisons with Dark Souls to an MMO (though MMOs seem to be focused a lot more on solo content these days). When you have to rely on other people, difficulty becomes much more "perceived" and people freak the fuck out if someone doesn't "get it" as quickly as they do.

EQ wasn't really a difficult game, there were just a lot of mechanics you could abuse to shine brighter than players who didn't know about those mechanics (root splitting adds by sitting down to draw aggro comes to mind)

mkopec_sl said:

The only difficulty EQ had was if your ass did not get sore from a 6-10 hour session. that was the only difference between high end players and casual scum, the casual scum actually had some other RL shit to do other than play EQ all day.

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This.. I was one of those no lifers. EQ was not hard really until Uqua (but that was mainly due to it being aimed at a level cap increase that did not happen right away which made it the most difficult content ever and nothing in WoW even comes close). However, what I think a lot of people are confusing as 'hard' I think really translates into requiring more of a time commitment.

The problem with EQN is that it comes from SOE and SOE has a certain track-record in destroying their own games. Everyone who has played EQ1 in the past pretty much knows what I am talking about and how the game took a dive.

The most recent example is Planetside 2. The game was totally overhyped, especially by the old Planetside 1 community who did expect something like the greatest sequel ever. What SOE did was basically to release a Battlefield-clone and turn it into a shameless money grab with the free-2-play-model. The worst about SOE is that they love to copy other games and add a little extra. This is their definition of "better". In the end it's just as boring and in some cases even worse than what the competition has to offer.

So far my suggestion would be not to expect too much from EQN. Before people declare it to be the hottest shit ever created, just wait and see how it turns out. The odds are that it will be total bullcrap, basically a nice looking game that forces you to buy new items via station cash every 2 weeks. It will most likely be a constant cycle of releasing totally OP stuff that gets nerfed to trash on the very next patch in order to keep the cash flowing.

That is my expectation, but even I can't be right all the time

Neric_sl said:

The problem with EQN is that it comes from SOE and SOE has a certain track-record in destroying their own games. Everyone who has played EQ1 in the past pretty much knows what I am talking about and how the game took a dive.

The most recent example is Planetside 2. The game was totally overhyped, especially by the old Planetside 1 community who did expect something like the greatest sequel ever. What SOE did was basically to release a Battlefield-clone and turn it into a shameless money grab with the free-2-play-model. The worst about SOE is that they love to copy other games and add a little extra. This is their definition of "better". In the end it's just as boring and in some cases even worse than what the competition has to offer.

So far my suggestion would be not to expect too much from EQN. Before people declare it to be the hottest shit ever created, just wait and see how it turns out. The odds are that it will be total bullcrap, basically a nice looking game that forces you to buy new items via station cash every 2 weeks. It will most likely be a constant cycle of releasing totally OP stuff that gets nerfed to trash on the very next patch in order to keep the cash flowing.

That is my expectation, but even I can't be right all the time

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I have my concernes that SoE will fuck this up. The potential is beyond huge, but what they are attempting to create is daunting. They are trying to bring together a lot of pieces and its just a monumental task while still ensuring a fun game.

That said, I'm keeping my hopes up for now - a foolish thing to do, I know. But, so far, I like what I see.

-I dont disapprove of the graphics.
-I love the minecraftish additions to a MMO, although they have shown us nothing. I foresee it being very constrained but hope not.
-The class swapping is just awesome to me. I always tons of alts in my MMO's. I enjoy different play styles and now dont have to log to an alt to change classes.
-Storybricks seems promising. Need more info but "smart A.I" sounds good. Obviously Im skeptical.
-Parkour free movement looks awesome.
-It's EverQuest. I expect a level of quality.

I'm excited for the game. I'm looking forward to Landmark this winter. I'd say EQN is one of the most anticipated games of all time.

Felmega_sl said:

I'd say EQN is one of the most anticipated games of all time.

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I think EQN is neck & neck with Vanguard right now. But by the day EQN recruits more folks waiting on it.

Felmega_sl said:

I'd say EQN is one of the most anticipated games of all time.

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You do mean most anticipated by this community, right? Right?

Anyway to the question from 1 page ago, I prefer bitching about things we know details about, so right now I mostly bitch about the lore rape. There's plenty of time to complain about gameplay and performance next year.

I wonder if they'll really be able to give us a beta for Landmark by the end of the year. Only around 2 and a half months left, and it's speeding by. If they're able to release Landmark as soon as they're saying then I think it will raise my hopes for Next quite a bit.

I still don't know how is combat, you know, the shit I do 98% of the time I'm online, because even when exploring I tend to get my hammer dirty on everything that moves.
I still don't know if I can beat this game by flinging shit on the keyboard or if I have to dodge/block some stuff.
I still don't know what classes are there, what they can do, how I can swap them or mix them or which convoluted set of rules I'll need to learn to take advantage of the multiclass stuff (assuming it's even remotely appealing to me).
I still don't know if traveling is click here or click there or if I have to run my ass to the other side of the world to kill goddamn_boss_03 (or beg the local taxi bitch, meaning wizard/druid seeing that we're in Norrath).
I still don't know if replayability is there or unexistant, if they'll stick to the mantra "everything happens only once", which honestly I don't even know if it was said by them, but whatever.
I still don't know if healers are out of the equation and in case, I'd hate the fact there are no healers , especially healers in a tin can (clerics of old, paladins of semi-old). Damn, I love healing, can't help it.

I'd have a much longer list.

I'm still wondering if this will be an MMO requiring some efforts from the player to socialize and form bonds of allegiance outside those where the requirement is to fill a roster for "raids". If talking to each other, forming a group, traveling around together, etc. is encouraged or 100% avoidable (e.g.: LFD, LFR, LFanything, AH, RMAH, etc.).

Once I'll know the answers to all these things and imagining all of them are of my liking, then maybe, just maybe, I'll start having small and tiny hopes for a decent game lasting longer than a month on my PC.

misery_sl said:

I wonder if they'll really be able to give us a beta for Landmark by the end of the year. Only around 2 and a half months left, and it's speeding by. If they're able to release Landmark as soon as they're saying then I think it will raise my hopes for Next quite a bit.

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Closed Beta was supposed to start this month. Fortunately for SOE, Winter goes from Dec 21 to March 21, so they have a long time until thereleaseopen beta is actually 'late'.