EQ Never

zzeris

zzeris

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Quaid_sl said:
I really hate to break this to you... but EverQuest stopped being 'hardcore' long before WoW ever existed. There was never an EverQuest there to go back to.

As much as I sometimes disagree with etchazz's hardline stances, that whole post made you sound ridiculous.
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And I wonder why it stopped being hardcore. Where was the hardcore game that took EQ's place by chance? The industry has tried to display this over the past decade, I've said it many times before and yet it's still like talking to a brick wall. The hardcore game ISNT going to get made. Ok, easy enough now? I don't care how many other games in other genres are thrown out there as proof of this mass of humanity wanting that super hardcore MMO but I haven't seen any sign of it. You? A hint? A peep? Anything? Please speak up.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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zzeris_sl said:
And I wonder why it stopped being hardcore. Where was the hardcore game that took EQ's place by chance? The industry has tried to display this over the past decade, I've said it many times before and yet it's still like talking to a brick wall. The hardcore game ISNT going to get made. Ok, easy enough now? I don't care how many other games in other genres are thrown out there as proof of this mass of humanity wanting that super hardcore MMO but I haven't seen any sign of it. You? A hint? A peep? Anything? Please speak up.
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Ya know what man, I wonder that too. Why did it stop being hardcore? Could it have been around late 2001 with the release of Luclin? You know, the well recognized time of the 'end of the classic era' of EverQuest?

Oooooh look, a steady subscriber increase right up until the moment of SoL's release!

rrr_img_42897.png


SOE started killing EverQuest long before Blizzard did.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Quaid_sl said:
Ya know what man, I wonder that too. Why did it stop being hardcore? Could it have been around late 2001 with the release of Luclin? You know, the well recognized time of the 'end of the classic era' of EverQuest?

Oooooh look, a steady subscriber increase right up until the moment of SoL's release!

rrr_img_42897.png


SOE started killing EverQuest long before Blizzard did.
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Etchazz, can you get back on over here please!

Quaid, learn how to read a fucking chart! See that little green circle with EQ right beside it? See the greatest number of subs in the 2004 time frame at 550,000? Right around the time EQ2 and WoW were about ready to get released? Can you see that? Can you see the consistent climb until 2004? That means increased subs. Do you see them suddenly plummeting as WoW and EQ2 took their subs away? Anything else you want me to help you with? Reading Curious George? How a pie chart reads? The explanation of why 12x12+12= 156?
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Dude... Look at the rate subs were climbing before SOL... Then look after.

Take a deep breath too.
 
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Mellent_sl

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Quaid_sl said:
Dude... Look at the rate subs were climbing before SOL... Then look after.

Take a deep breath too.
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You're still wrong, you know. SoL dropped in December 2001. Sub rates stopped climbing at that high speed in early 2001, then continued at nearly the exact same growth after SoL dropped.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Mellent_sl said:
You're still wrong, you know. SoL dropped in December 2001. Sub rates stopped climbing at that high speed in early 2001, then continued at nearly the exact same growth after SoL dropped.
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New subscription rate always drops at the end of an expansion cycle, the question is, does the next expansion cycle increase it or not.
 
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etchazz

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zzeris_sl said:
If you want to be lazy as a designer, then sure this works. Progress can actually be something beyond a little shiny blue bar moving in small increments. Why should we continue to think so small?

People talk about hard gameplay and skill. Vertical games have very, very little to do with this. It's about upgrading stats to the point a retard could succeed. That's the kind of gameplay you guys are endorsing. I would much rather see if they could make it skill based or just a bit more than the same old crap. They can still balance gameplay so that progression is obtained every time you log in. You don't even have to waste your time searching for that little colored bar.

Etchazz, WoW stomping EQ is very valid. When gamers get tired of another in a long line of disappointing MMOs, where do they go? WoW. Like clockwork. Why don't they head back to EQ? Why did they never head back to EQ? When did WoW ever go down to EQs best years? It didn't, it wont. Want to know why no one will ever make a hardcore MMO for that huge player-base you keep describing? Because they never went back to EQ. They voted over and over and over with their wallets on what kind of game they wanted. It was never EQ. If that player-base was so desperate for EQ, then what happened? WoW was just more fun right? Other games offered more right? WoW vanilla was the superior experience. They go back to EQ for nostalgia just like I do.
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by the time WoW came out, EQ was already 5 and a half years old and the mass exodus of that game had started years prior to WoW even being released. the drop off was the result of several bad expansions, including gates of discord and omens of war. most people stopped playing EQ after the PoP expansion, which was 2 years prior to warcraft being released. hell, a lot of players that i knew stopped playing EQ after the SoV expansion which was in 2000. for a majority of the WoW population, WoW was their first MMO. shit, most people who started with WoW didn't even know what a MMO was, they just knew the name warcraft and bought the game because of the IP alone. most gamers from this generation have never even heard of everquest. their first (and only) MMO was warcraft. so you can stop with the stupid argument about people not going back to EQ. that's about as fucking stupid as asking FPS players now why they don't go back and play doom. at least get your head out of your ass far enough to know that much.
 
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Felmega_sl

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Subs mean nothing as long as sufficient profits are being made.

Player devotion and game longevity are the true measures of greatness.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Did sub rates really drop or even out is the question? They didn't drop. Sure, some dropped but more picked up the slack. That's really the only question. Also, did the highest sub rate occur before SoL or way after? Easy answers here.

Etchazz, glad you are back. That's the point. People that started with WoW went back to WoW for whatever reason. Some that started with EQ went to WoW and then back to WoW. Not many ever went back to EQ. Why? There were far more people that played that game than the 500k or so in their highest level like you say.
 
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Mellent_sl

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Just to break up the current path the thread's on, what's RR's stance on auction houses / the various methods of player to player economy interaction? Trading only, easy to use/access auction house, something in between?
 
Dandai

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Mellent_sl said:
Just to break up the current path the thread's on, what's RR's stance on auction houses / the various methods of player to player economy interaction? Trading only, easy to use/access auction house, something in between?
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I (believe) they confirmed Landmark's "auction house" would be player stalls built around the wizard spires (landmarks?). I don't know if they mentioned offline trading or online only (such as EQ1 bazaar).

As for EQN, they've obviously said little and less concerning every game system.

Edit: In terms of what I would like to see, I definitely do not want another EQ1 bazaar. I don't have anything against global auction houses, but I'm open to hear what others like better.
 
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Mellent_sl

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Dandai_sl said:
I (believe) they confirmed Landmark's "auction house" would be player stalls built around the wizard spires (landmarks?). I don't know if they mentioned offline trading or online only (such as EQ1 bazaar).

As for EQN, they've obviously said little and less concerning every game system.

Edit: In terms of what I would like to see, I definitely do not want another EQ1 bazaar. I don't have anything against global auction houses, but I'm open to hear what others like better.
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Well yes, they confirmed that Landmark's selling system was going to be very free form. This is really just as far as EQN goes because yeah, we've haven't heard much about their plans for EQN. They probably still have a pool of ideas they're testing out when it comes to the economic systems (or maybe not even that much).

I'd like an auction house that has more of a dynamic approach regarding the world. Maybe only city-based auction houses, so that players could actually make money off of buying a specific resource from a city with an abundance, then marking it up in cities with less of said resource. There at least has to besomeinteraction between any overarching economic system and the game world. For as much as they want to make the game world seem like an actual world, it would be a massive blunder to have any auction system act as if it exists outside of the game world.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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etchazz_sl said:
by the time WoW came out, EQ was already 5 and a half years old and the mass exodus of that game had started years prior to WoW even being released. the drop off was the result of several bad expansions, including gates of discord and omens of war. most people stopped playing EQ after the PoP expansion, which was 2 years prior to warcraft being released. hell, a lot of players that i knew stopped playing EQ after the SoV expansion which was in 2000. for a majority of the WoW population, WoW was their first MMO. shit, most people who started with WoW didn't even know what a MMO was, they just knew the name warcraft and bought the game because of the IP alone. most gamers from this generation have never even heard of everquest. their first (and only) MMO was warcraft. so you can stop with the stupid argument about people not going back to EQ. that's about as fucking stupid as asking FPS players now why they don't go back and play doom. at least get your head out of your ass far enough to know that much.
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Pretty much this and the fact that there wasn't anywhere else to go. I took a lot of breaks from EQ back in the day but always came back. Back then taking a break meant not playing mmos and instead going outside for a few months. FFXI was the first break where I went to another mmo. And up untill a couple of years ago jumping from mmo to mmo was the new norm, it was hell on my tan and muscle tone.

But the problem with all the new mmos is that they really don't have the staying power that old EQ did. One reason is that as I said before they were the only game in town, but that wasn't the only thing that kept me going back. EQ is the only PvE mmo that ever had a sense of danger. All the new mmos are boring because consequence doesn't matter. So their shelf life only lasts as long as the new smell is interesting, which is about 2 months. Then everyone leaves and the game is deemed a failure.

The people who say a hardcore mmo wouldn't sell are not looking at the existing market honestly. They blithely forget that almost every new mmo that has come out since WoW has been casual cheese and they all have failed.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Grim1_sl said:
The people who say a hardcore mmo wouldn't sell are morons. They blithly forget that every new mmo that has come out since WoW has been casual cheese and all have failed.
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This too. There seems to be this thought that just because casual MMOs have succeeded, that hardcore ones would immediately fail.

Where's the example? Other than early EQ, based on what data are these conclusions being drawn? Vanguard? Even after it's dismal launch it still sold 250,000 boxes in the first month. I'm not sure that's ridiculously far from WoW 's month 1 performance (500,000 iirc?).

Other than that example, where are these hardcore MMORPGs getting launched and failing? I just don't see any supporting evidence here.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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And most of Vanguard's issues were technical. When your customer base has problems actually loading the game or ctd every few minutes then it doesn't matter how good the design is, casual or hardcore. So using Vanguard as an example doesn't work.

Good games sell. If they are fun and run decently on common machines, then people will play them. Casual or hardcore.
 
Big_w_powah

Big_w_powah

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In the next couple of days, there should be some info on EQNext Junkies. You guys should totes check it out.

I'll post again when its up.
 
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