EQ Never

@Khane, look it up. Sorry that we're arguing about shit you're ignorant of.

@Dahkoht it's not impossible. They can very easily avoid it, in fact - just don't give playersoverall powers they progress. Max tier players don't get items that have +100 health, +20 armor,without downsides. Items are instead balancing acts. And other factors too.

Mellent_sl said:

@Khane, look it up. Sorry that we're arguing about shit you're ignorant of.

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Yeah... sounds like you have a firm grasp on the nuances between the two.

Considering that there are 40 classes, if they go with the traditional gear grind, you will be grinding gear for various classes. That would mean adventuring for not only your warrior gear, but your caster, rogue, and healer gear too. While this is nothing but pure speculation, you can imagine how this could flatten the grind.

The devs have stated that in order to get to tier 2, you will need to complete the tier 2 starter gear set. This means you could hunt Orcs until EQ3 is out, you still wont accumulate the power that allows you access to tier 2. In a sense, it breaks the old XP treadmill.

Felmega_sl said:

Considering that there are 40 classes, if they go with the traditional gear grind, you will be grinding gear for various classes. That would mean adventuring for not only your warrior gear, but your caster, rogue, and healer gear too. While this is nothing but pure speculation, you can imagine how this could flatten the grind.

The devs have stated that in order to get to tier 2, you will need to complete the tier 2 starter gear set. This means you could hunt Orcs until EQ3 is out, you still wont accumulate the power that allows you access to tier 2. In a sense, it breaks the old XP treadmill.

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Sounds like a bunch of the same old nonsense with a different buzzword attached. Instead of cockblocking me from entering a dungeon based on my item level, they cockblock me from entering a dungeon based on my tier number.

Khane_sl said:

Sounds like a bunch of the same old nonsense with a different buzzword attached. Instead of cockblocking me from entering a dungeon based on my item level, they cockblock me from entering a dungeon based on my tier number.

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I mean, Khane, what do you want? Do you want players to be able to log-in to the game for the first time, go into the toughest dungeon and beat it? Of course there is some form of cockblocking, just in like in real life. Shit has to be earned. Quit being obtuse. Maybe youre better off playing some other genre because in RPG's, you have to work to c from b from a.

Diagonal leveling is the future.

Felmega_sl said:

I mean, Khane, what do you want? Do you want players to be able to log-in to the game for the first time, go into the toughest dungeon and beat it? Of course there is some form of cockblocking, just in like in real life. Shit has to be earned. Quit being obtuse. Maybe youre better off playing some other genre because in RPG's, you have to work to c from b from a.

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Uhh what? I never complained about having to grow stronger before you can take on the hardest content. I'm laughing at the people who buy into this whole "horizontal" vs "vertical" bullshit buzzword nonsense and act like it's not the same old shit in a different package.

EQN is going to be the biggest letdown of a game in the history of MMO's. I look forward to all the salty tears.

Khane_sl said:

EQN is going to be the biggest letdown of a game in the history of MMO's. I look forward to all the salty tears.

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Completely subjective. You obviously wont be letdown though, as you have clearly shit-canned the game.

etchazz_sl said:

the fact that there are people who believe horizontal leveling is somehow different than vertical leveling is the reason why this industry is in the shape it's in. these are the same people who believe a ton of feathers weighs less than a ton of bricks...

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Horizontal and vertical progression are actually quite different. I mean if you want to boil games down to "you kill stuff and get stuff", then I guess everything is the same in the end?

I expect a very short exp type grinding curve for each class. But there will be so many classes the total amount exp type grinding will be roughly the same as current level based mmogs.

Think of it as a waffle with each class being one of the little squares and syrup being the exp. Each square(class) fills up very rapidly with a tiny amount of syrup(exp) but because there are many squares(classes) it takes a decent amount of syrup(exp) per waffle.

Ok now I'm hungry time for food.

Siddar_sl said:

I expect a very short exp type grinding curve for each class. But there will be so many classes the total amount exp type grinding will be roughly the same as current level based mmogs.

Think of it as a waffle with each class being one of the little squares and syrup being the exp. Each square(class) fills up very rapidly with a tiny amount of syrup(exp) but because there are many squares(classes) it takes a decent amount of syrup(exp) per waffle.

Ok now I'm hungry time for food.

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Ok, but what about all the people who don't want to level any other classes? I mean, it seems they have forgotten there are a lot of people out there who like to pick and stick to one class. If this is the way they are going at it those people are going to get bored pretty quickly.

Khane_sl said:

Ok, but what about all the people who don't want to level any other classes? I mean, it seems they have forgotten there are a lot of people out there who like to pick and stick to one class. If this is the way they are going at it those people are going to get bored pretty quickly.

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Who doesn't want more waffles?

Oh good lord. Vertical leveling. 1-50
Horizontal leveling tier 1-5 with 10 segments in between. To get to tier 2 you have to get all the tier 1 pieces. Like 10 of em.

Pretty close to the same damn thing, dressed up in dev speak.
If a tier 5 dude is the same power as a tier 1 with more options out of combat then people will have no real progression and will get mired in boredom quickly. See guild wars 2 weapon skills. Flipping boring, neat idea but having the same damn attack from 1 to 80 is zzzzz.

Give me an auto attack with 5 moves that I can socket in a chain. As i do things in game I get more abilities to socket in. As I use those abilities they go up in rank and get more power. Then give me 8 slots of situation dependent stuff that I can change out of combat with no more than a 15 second cooldown then 2 uberish abilities on no more than a 3 minute cooldown. Make people have tactical combat but strategic choices in character buildout and abilities. Have a shitload of movement based attacks and knockback and draw in maneuvers.

Every class can move and attack, spells and attacks can have a cast time, but you can still move. Have collectable mounts with 1-2 attacks 1-2 movement powers and 1-2 flavor abilities. As I master a class by getting all the moves for that class let me mix and match abilities.

Make items have weight and sockets that I can use as well as stats. Make every stat matter for every class. Sure some might not be as useful overall but every single stat should give you + gooder. Give people minions kinda like Swtor, crafting minions, non combat pets, combat helpers. Let people earn and learn cool animations for attacks. and Dances for the different races/ heritages.

Khane_sl said:

Ok, but what about all the people who don't want to level any other classes? I mean, it seems they have forgotten there are a lot of people out there who like to pick and stick to one class. If this is the way they are going at it those people are going to get bored pretty quickly.

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As long as you don't want to be a pure healer you might be ok , but at some point a healer raped most of the dev staff in real life. There is deep rooted hatred for the healer.

I'm expecting some vertical advancement, just not to the point of being invincible Joe to the lower tiers like in a DIKU. I expect your power level to be similar to GW2 when in zones below your personal tier: you can take on more at once and kill faster, but you are not unhittable and outregen all damage while standing there like in most games.

Horizontal leveling is a misnomer, I see it more like EVE where I advance in the direction I want dictated by my own goals or by peer pressure, depending on the environment I play in (i.e. dont kid yourself that "serious" guilds wont require certain classes/unlocks).

Many bought into the TSW system was going to have "no levels" , then were slapped in the face in game with QL requirements for groups.