EQ Never

Rezz_sl said:

Definitely overhyped, but unlike copernicus it is almost 100% guaranteed to actually get released. Dogshit or not, it will at least see the light of day. Still don't see why all the sandbox folks have any faith at all in Sony creating the game they want when Sony has pretty much nil in the sandbox department as actual design decisions instead of unintended results.

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SWG is like the only big budget sandbox game ever made, and it was made by SOE. We have had a bunch of low budget tries at making a good sandbox but all but EVE have failed. If you watch how SOE has been running EQ and EQ2 for the last couple years you will get a better idea of what they intend for EQN I think. Stuff like player studio and create your own dungeon is definitely them trying out different ideas for new games. They still push housing in their games way harder than any other company... house of thule was only released in 2010, so unless you expect me to believe they spent all that time and money developing the neighborhood system and housing purely for a 11 year old (at the time) game I am gonna believe they they are using these games as testbeds for what people want in a new mmo. Ditto with player made dungeons hitting EQ2 just last year.

They are focused pretty intently on where they can go with player generated content. If they intend to let player owned stuff be primarily non-instanced they need a big big world, which they have hinted at, then I will be pretty happy. Primary thing I don't like about modern games housing and player own content is that it is instanced, its not exciting if only you ever see it. I don't know what to expect but I think if you expect WoW + some minor sandbox stuff you are gonna be wrong.

Creslin_sl said:

I don't know what to expect but I think if you expect WoW + some minor sandbox stuff you are gonna be wrong.

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Lots of different types of games out there besides WoW when someone mentions current gen mmos~ I'm also pretty sure that many of the "Sandbox" elements from SWG started getting nixed as the years go on, as well as it feeding into my unintended results theory that Sony has been riding since day 1. They make mistakes that get heralded as amazing design decisions and then go "Oh yeah totally, WE MEANT TO DO THAT!" And when they try to replicate those mistakes, they end up with NGE and other stupid design decisions.

Nobody is expecting WoW+anything, but I would be really, really, really surprised if they didn't include instancing (including housing) and phasing technology because it gives them a shit ton of outs while still letting players do their own thing. And that whole concept makes most sandboxers shit their pants in a rage.

Convo_sl said:

So Qixter just told me there will be no EQN info until Aug 1st. :-(

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I wouldn't expect anything of any weight or value until Fan Faire. Should get some concrete details then to discuss for another year or so... I can't wait until beta. I really think you are going to see a lot of people sharing some heart to hearts more so than any other beta. This game may not be popular among the masses but there are going to be some people extremely passionate about this game. I was thinking about that today when looking through all the FFXIV beta stuff.

Convo_sl said:

So Qixter just told me there will be no EQN info until Aug 1st. :-(

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Lol, bummer.

It will be interesting to see how many times we can rehash the same subjects over and over again till then...

Fuck it lets discuss instancing again! GOOOOOOOO AWAY INSTANCING!

I'm of the opinion that if you want to play alone, then the MMORPG genre SHOULD not be for you.

There are plenty of great single player/co-op RPGs out there for you to consume all alone or with your small group of friends just like you want.

Yup

Mick_sl said:

I agree with you 100%, but you are going to have a large vocal group of players that will want equal access to content when the want it and the developers will do it via instancing.

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Unfortunately that's the sad truth.

Mick_sl said:

I agree with you 100%, but you are going to have a large vocal group of players that will want equal access to content when the want it and the developers will do it via instancing.

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It's not about people playing alone, since most instanced content in current gen games is group/raid content. It's about not having to wait in lines to see content or wait a week plus for the -chance- to see content. Instancing fights the key problem with mmorpgs of yesteryear by letting people actually do shit when they want to do shit. It takes the timezone out of the equation. Your enjoyment of a game should not be based largely on when you play, even if the game is social. Being that PST guild when there are stay at home moms/students/unemployed/work from home types that kill everything worthwhile while you are at work sucks balls. And it was a rampant problem with the genre during EQ's day. Or having spawns locked on retard early AM schedule because a Euro/Asian caught it while it was up and the rest of the server misses out til there is a chance after a server reset. -That- is the reason for instancing; not the removal of the social aspect.

And again, the only things you miss by not running into other players in dungeons, for the most part, is you aren't getting trained and shit you want to kill is actually available when you want to kill it. People still talk in general (I assume, I turn off retard chat in most games almost immediately, just like I did in EQ. But before I turn it off, it is always active) while they are doing dungeons, they still chat in trade, they still do all the shit we remember from EQ. Just that now content denial isn't a part of the standard mmo design. I don't think anyone enjoys missing out on stuff because some guild is permacamping a spawn for some reason or likes not being able to fight raid content because of timezone disadvantage.

I mean, at least I am pretty sure that nobody likes shit like that keeping them from enjoying parts of the game. Masochism does run rampant along with trannies and crackheads and e-sluts and all sorts of other shit on these boards.

Edit: Also, lots of folks have this incredibly myopic view of instancing by looking at the DungeonHallways of WoW and think "YUP, that is the -only- way instancing can be done. Nobody is ever going to create instanced content that might be deeper than hallway-boss-hallway-boss. NEVER!" There is literally nothing stopping a developer from recreating Sebilis in all its glory and have it fully instanced, but because people can't pin the tag of hatred for WoW on it, they just go "instancing sucks!" It's silly.

Non instanced raid content is great but mostly for the unemployed. Look at Original EQ, that is the shit sandwich you would get with no instances, large guilds of unemployed or college kids who would monopolize all high end content.. and no willie coyote scheme you come up with to have lockouts on the non instanced content will work.

Public Quest style raids are much more anti social than just having instanced guild raids, so I hate when I see that suggestion. Myokpec, that is instancing not phasing. Call a spade a spade, if you made sebilis and when your raid got close to trak you got put into your own little 'phase' with a trak just for you, that is instancing not phasing. Phasing is a progression tool to move players forward in the timeline of a static zone, as it was originally defined and used in WoW, ya they can use that tech to create instances but at that point it really isn't fitting the definition of a phase anymore, it is just seemless instancing like SWTOR had.

Man, having just my party in LGuk with no other idiots in the way would have completely sucked.

On opposite day.

Instancing to me seems like the perfect way to keep people entertained.

Example - large social dungeon Sebilis

Your group has Armorer/Chef area - traditional camp

Armorer spawns with a Red name versus a Blue classic NPC name - you have an Instanced dungeon option to defeat a more difficult version of the Armorer & cronies. Defeating or failing the instance drops you back at the zone in.

I just don't see why it has to be all or nothing, why Instanced versus not Instanced. Clearly has it's uses

Valid points indeed and I can agree with some of them.

However...
Lguk all alone would be very boring to me I think. Get all the items and be done with it in 1-3 days? No thanks. Zero social interaction good or bad?
Everyone gets their items and gets out? Everyone gets the same gear as you easily? Come on...

Nobody wants to be the same as the next 10 guys but instancing allows that and even worse it totally strips out the social aspects that make MMORPGs so special.

Perhaps it doesn't have to go away completely, like some have said. It can co-exist with non-instancing but right now MMOs seem to be all or nothing on instancing.