EQ Never

Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
4,488
3,531
jello_sl said:
People bring this up all the time and it is a poor argument for two reasons if we are discussing the lifeblood of what made early EQ what it was
1) Only a small percentage of the player base were having their panties in a wad over end game content

2) Not as big as a factor as #1, however getting our panties in a wad was part of the appeal of EQ for those of us who were bleeding content connoisseurs, the competition was salivating.

And that's just taking into account the argument from an EQ perspective. The argument gets even less appealing when there are multiple options to avoid the average gamer getting their panties tussled because they don't have enough content, eg ship a game with ample content.
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The playerbase of mmos and the world in general is not the same as it was in early EQ. This is what makes bringing up what made EQ so great in a vacuum in 1999-2002 a terrible argument for all kinds of reasons. In those days? People waited for camps to open; they waited for spots in groups; they waited for the top 2-3 guilds on the server to finish with raid content so they could see it. Why? Because there was -no- other PVE centric fantasy games out at the time besides AC and it was inferior to EQ in most ways MMORPG players expect from an MMORPG. Today there are options. If you cockblock people from enjoying stuff because high playtime people monopolize relevant content, they will most likely stop playing the game and go to one that doesn't rely on timezone to dole out content rights.

And just telling a company to "ship a game with ample content" means a lot of different things to different people. Without going procedural, no game company is going to have "ample content" where the issues of the best shit being monopolized all the time by the people with the largest playtime/timezone advantage are not a problem. I understand what you want, but I'm just here to tell you that the ship for that specific type of game has sailed, as the world has changed too much for that type of game to exist. A game where when you log on is almost more important than what you do when you are logged on will not have the subs to create the same type of drama that existed when options did not. It will be a cesspool like the Emu servers always turn into, and then it will die. Or have the same 45k people multiboxing just like EQ has today.

Just saying, you cannot compare the marketplace, the gaming public, or the world at large from today to 10+ years ago and say "It worked then!" without taking into account the last 10+ years. Which is what you are doing when you reference a very specific situation with one of the first mmorpgs during its infancy before it had real competition.
 
Namon

Namon

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,976
2,565
Deisun_sl said:
Well, that's what I'm wondering. I know for sure there were some websites that started up and I don't know how they were making all their money. One guy cashed out for a huge chunk of money, little gnome guy name started with a 'Y' I think. Wish I could remember.
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Yantis was the name. I always thought (could be wrong) that the reason plat selling/farming was so low was simply because once you hit a point, and after Velious it was pretty early on, most people were really going after no drop equipment that could not be bought. Yes Plat served some purpose but the majority of gear was basically not able to be sold was it not?
 
Itlan

Itlan

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,994
744
Namon_sl said:
Yantis was the name. I always thought (could be wrong) that the reason plat selling/farming was so low was simply because once you hit a point, and after Velious it was pretty early on, most people were really going after no drop equipment that could not be bought. Yes Plat served some purpose but the majority of gear was basically not able to be sold was it not?
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Vanity items were the expensive shit, and those 100k horses. But yeah, Yantis made out like a bandit. There's also some EQ2 dude who abused an exploit when housing first came out, supposedly made more than $20,000 in two weeks.
 
S

supertouch_sl

shitlord
1,858
3
Itzena_sl said:
Remind me again, which game did IGE start in and to whom did they outsource their farming?
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oh, please. ige may have been founded by two guys who played eq but that doesn't mean these types of transactions were common in eq's heyday. daoc was probably the first mmo that would have yielded any real revenue.
 
S

supertouch_sl

shitlord
1,858
3
you can start a company before making any headway. players selling their rare items and characters on ebay was common. little asian boys in sweatshops camping rare items was not.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,253
916
jello_sl said:
People still have difficulties understanding social interaction/non-instanced content is what made EQ what it was. If you want to make a MMORPG not a MMOLobbyPG, instant content is anathema. Yes there is the possibility of farmers, yes you might get cockblocked by a pubescent low self esteemed gentleman, yes it will make it harder for you to get your shiny.knife.of.blistering.fairy.valor. Its not perfect but if you want a game with consequences compromises are necessary.
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You have no idea, unless you're an avid reader of this board, just how much I have preached this.... I agree with you 100%
 
Agraza

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
He's wrong about pretty much everything.

Eventually he'll just say, "You don't get why people play MMOs." as if we're not people and we don't play MMOs.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Every minute I spent waiting for a camp to open, or waiting for some band of idiots to hurry up and die to the dragon so I could kill it, or some shithead trained my group and wasted my time, or any other number of the "joys" of non-instancing is a minute of my life I wish I had back and I will never waste again.

The same goes for the previous discussion of ridiculous ways to encourage traveling. Oh boy, I get to sit at the dungeon entrance for a fucking hour while the rest of the group picks berries, solves mini games and checks vendors for rare goods on their way to the goddamn dungeon. Great fucking plan.

PS: You guys know like, most of the shit you discuss was all done in Everquest2 with things like auto-instancing zones by population, open dungeons with small instanced rooms with boss encounters, limited instant-travel and practically everything else you've mentioned? And you can even get around the 4 hotbars of shit gameplay now thanks to a decent macro system.
 
J

jello_sl

shitlord
24
0
Rezz;113261 said:
The playerbase of mmos and the world in general is not the same as it was in early EQ. -snip- [/ QUOTE]

Neither of my posts pertained to the ebb and flow of the current marketplace, the bones of that horse are dust and everyone needs to just agree to disagree that a niche game can be "successful" (however you wish to define it). It was a retrospective observance of what allowed social and meaningful interactions, and the attraction it had for the majority of people who experienced it. The more instanced content you have the less interaction you have - its not exactly a nuanced concept. Yet the only counter argument is "people will not play it! because sand in vaginas rabble rabble rabble". Rather absurd.
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Kayak

Kayak

Trakanon Raider
45
18
Another way to look at how EQ1 changed was the implementation of Plane of Knowledge instant port click books. It was a HUGE convenience to most classes, but tweaked the overall role of druid/wizard. It's small elements like that which will make or not make eqn be anyway similar to eq1.

The fact that most of us have more responsibilities irl compared to playing eq circa 99-03 also changes the view point of many gamers. I agree with a lot of the hybrid instance ideas being thrown out. Lets keep the sense of community and interaction strong, but add a small element of instances which will benefit the more casual crowd but not take away from the eq1 community feel. This could start out with only a handful (2-3) of 'instances' but eventually add more through gm event or patches.
 
J

jello_sl

shitlord
24
0
Kreugen_sl said:
Every minute I spent waiting for a camp to open, or waiting for some band of idiots to hurry up and die to the dragon so I could kill it, or some shithead trained my group and wasted my time, or any other number of the "joys" of non-instancing is a minute of my life I wish I had back and I will never waste again.
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I experienced those things, but it doesn't seem to have rubbed me in the same way as it did you. I would take that experience over the on rails, community emaciated single player "MMORPGs" we have now.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
41,703
142,954
I wonder how much the fact that bag space was extremely limited, lots of items being unstackable, and coin having a weight had to do with no automated farmers in EQ? Take farming something like giants, for instance. Yeah, you could probably automate that pretty well, but after a while you're going to be crawling because you've got plat that weighs so damn much that you can't farm anymore.
 
Agraza

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
I think it's far more about the sophistication of bots than the design of EQ. A lot of them were just getting going on EQ. And the difference in quality of bots is vast; furthermore, the anti-botting mechanisms are done ad hoc from game to game as the developers feel they're needed, but many of the bot methods can transfer from game to game. So manipulations of more advanced techniques may lie in wait for the developers to catch up to the vanguard of defense mechanisms, all the while having no effect on botters.
 
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