EQ Never

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Ravishing

Ravishing

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I'd love a reskinned EQ but it can't be as hardcore as it was. Too much bloat in the MMO space now. The time sinks aren't desirable in today's gaming market. Everyone's been too spoon-fed, too impatient. EQ was never hard, it just required good RNG and time commitment. Camping rare spawns was the most mind-numbing shit ever. Yes it felt fucking awesome when the rare spawn finally appeared but that shit won't fly anymore.

Now content designers need to make content that is engaging and challenging and reward players for skill rather than enduring mental pains.

Don't kid yourselves, none of us will sit on our asses 12 hours straight for a piece of loot anymore.

One other thing EQ had was the 40+ person raids. There were always those "zerg" guilds doing everything with 75-80 and the "elite" guilds doing shit with 40-50. You can't do that anymore due to graphic and server limitations since new games always have to push limits and also herding around huge groups of people was a skill learned out of necessity which most people will refuse to do now. It became a full-time job and with so many other options out there now you won't get as many people willing to do that. Most will want to stick to smaller group content games.

A lot of the EQ nostalgia came from guild rivalry. You won't have such strong rivalries if you have a bunch of tiny small guilds. Every EQ server had a guild hierarchy, rarely having 2+ guilds at the top. This was able to be supported simply because guilds had large memberships.

The EQ era is a fond memory, lots of great times and great memories but good luck ever recapturing it.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Most of the things you are pining over that you think won't fly anymore already exists in a very popular game called black desert.

it doesn't have raids so much as it has world bosses, so that might be a no go for you, but let me tell you about how that game handles guild rivalries and guild hierarchies, especially when racing to world bosses or fighting over the good spawns with rare loot. Much better than a bunch of faggots crying and petitioning for a gm to institute a rotation.
 
Dandai

Dandai

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Yeah, Black Desert scratches some of that vanilla EQ itch for me. Since what made EQ special is subjective to each person, it's hard to guarantee that you'll have the same experience. For me it's the sandboxy/freeform discovery and incentive to explore every nook and cranny.
 
Fight

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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But bro, we have to go back to Norrath.

rrr_img_133575.jpg
 
Erronius

Erronius

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Dandai_sl said:
Yeah, Black Desert scratches some of that vanilla EQ itch for me. Since what made EQ special is subjective to each person, it's hard to guarantee that you'll have the same experience. For me it's the sandboxy/freeform discovery and incentive to explore every nook and cranny.
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Huh. I've never even opened the thread because I thought it was just going to be another Tuco Approved flash in the pan game.
 
Dandai

Dandai

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I'm not gonna go all in and say Black Desert isn't a "flash in the pan," but I'm really enjoying myself. It's a challenge to accept that there aren't any traditional dungeons, but if you can get past that and enjoy the game as its own experience, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Keep seeing this "no dungeons" thing yet i keep camping mobs for rare loot in massive underground areas. Just discovered the actual helms keep, full of level 55 hard mobs that i need a group to clear.
 
E

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
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Fawe_sl said:
I'd love a reskinned EQ but it can't be as hardcore as it was. Too much bloat in the MMO space now. The time sinks aren't desirable in today's gaming market. Everyone's been too spoon-fed, too impatient. EQ was never hard, it just required good RNG and time commitment. Camping rare spawns was the most mind-numbing shit ever. Yes it felt fucking awesome when the rare spawn finally appeared but that shit won't fly anymore.

Now content designers need to make content that is engaging and challenging and reward players for skill rather than enduring mental pains.

Don't kid yourselves, none of us will sit on our asses 12 hours straight for a piece of loot anymore.

One other thing EQ had was the 40+ person raids. There were always those "zerg" guilds doing everything with 75-80 and the "elite" guilds doing shit with 40-50. You can't do that anymore due to graphic and server limitations since new games always have to push limits and also herding around huge groups of people was a skill learned out of necessity which most people will refuse to do now. It became a full-time job and with so many other options out there now you won't get as many people willing to do that. Most will want to stick to smaller group content games.

A lot of the EQ nostalgia came from guild rivalry. You won't have such strong rivalries if you have a bunch of tiny small guilds. Every EQ server had a guild hierarchy, rarely having 2+ guilds at the top. This was able to be supported simply because guilds had large memberships.

The EQ era is a fond memory, lots of great times and great memories but good luck ever recapturing it.
Click to expand...
Everything that you just described as stuff that "wouldn't fly anymore" is exactly the reason why most new MMO's don't last more than a month or so. The reason EQ was memorable was because it took time and the loot was hard to obtain. Games now hand you a new piece of loot every half hour and is the reason they're so hollow. You had to actually work for your stuff in EQ. Couple that with a death penalty that actually meant something, and you had a perfect blend of risk vs. reward. The rarer you make something, and the harder it is to obtain, the more value it holds. No one would covet gold if the entire world was covered in it.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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I don't understand... What MMORPGs aren't 'lasting more than a month or so'? WoW, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, GW2, ArchAge, Black Desert, AION, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14 etc etc etc are all still online and generating positive income...

In fact, the only major MMORPG made in the last decade (post-WoW era) to 'not last' was the one closest to EverQuest in design. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
 
Erronius

Erronius

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etchazz_sl said:
you had a perfect blend of risk vs. reward.
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I can agree with much of what you said, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it perfect.

FFXIV was probably the worst game I've played in this regard. No one seemed to care about any runs they did, and people just jumped into random group shit constantly. It was full-on zerg mode. Oh, you all wiped? No worries, just try again with your 'echo' buff until you beat it! I mean FFS, one of the first PUGs I ran in that game I almost pulled my hair out. I'd been watching YouTube videos on the dungeon to know what to do, and the other people in the group just ran around randomly. I ended up asking friend if that was normal, and they all said yes.

I'd like an MMO that can strike a good balance, but I don't really see players ever asking for that. People usually either seem to gravitate towards one extreme or the other. It's almost like politics in that you probably need to find a compromise, but people end up digging their heels in and turning these things into ideological debates.
 
Rezz

Rezz

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Really though, how much coordination was required (placement et al) for EQ even during the heyday? You had your important people, ie the MT, enchanter, shaman, bard and then whatever cleric box group you had, and the puller/s. Everyone else were bodies that made stuff happen faster. Once something was tash'd/malo'd/slowed, it was just maintaining that slow while keeping the MT (and Ramp OT, for some encounters) alive until you won. It hardly required full 40+ person attention the entire time in the vast majority of cases. If it had, I'm positive the group I ran with at the time would not have killed everything in velious right around Luclin release (definitely not cutting edge!) even with the AA increments. There were 12-20 MAX important people involved in any raid. The rest were warm bodies who were at their keyboards.
 
BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

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I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I just don't give a shit anymore. It's just something to do.

I don't hate wow and I don't love wow. And same with SWTOR, neverwinter, ToS, EQ, etc.

I just find myself always going back to EQ because it was my first addiction.

I don't think any mmo can make me feel the way EQ did way back when because when it was new, it was the escape from the shit hole that is real life.

After seeing EQ effectively ran in to the ground, it snaps you back to reality. This alternate world that you were effectively living in is vulnerable to complete destruction to the point that all your hard work is effectively gone.

Once that reality sets in, your mind won't let you become fully submersed in another "alternate reality". From then on out, they are all just games rather than alternate realities.

And, games can't give you the high that being fully submersed in an alternate reality can.
 
Dandai

Dandai

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Sylas_sl said:
Keep seeing this "no dungeons" thing yet i keep camping mobs for rare loot in massive underground areas. Just discovered the actual helms keep, full of level 55 hard mobs that i need a group to clear.
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Well, I'm only level 45, but I've seen literally 0 dungeons (or reasons to group for that matter) while leveling. I guess you could stretch the definition of "dungeon" and call the grinding spots outdoor dungeons...
 
Dandai

Dandai

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Quaid_sl said:
I don't understand... What MMORPGs aren't 'lasting more than a month or so'? WoW, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, GW2, ArchAge, Black Desert, AION, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14 etc etc etc are all still online and generating positive income...

In fact, the only major MMORPG made in the last decade (post-WoW era) to 'not last' was the one closest to EverQuest in design. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
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Don't get me wrong, I get your point, but there have been many, MANY more MMORPG's that have failed/sunset than Vanguard in the post-WoW era.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

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Quaid_sl said:
I don't understand... What MMORPGs aren't 'lasting more than a month or so'? WoW, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, GW2, ArchAge, Black Desert, AION, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14 etc etc etc are all still online and generating positive income...
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What he means is that, before, say, 2006, almost all MMOs launched, and ramped up over a year or two, before plateauing and starting a slow slide to core fandom.

Starting with stuff like Age of Conan, you started to see those one-months wonder: a massive spike at launch, then a massive drop down after one to two months and a plateau for some time.

We're now starting to see MMOs without the spike+die-off for one reason: almost no MMO require a subscription anymore, which means the "end of free month" syndrome which basically drove away players. F2P also restarted the player growth for some of the one/two-months wonders.
 
A

Arcaus_sl

shitlord
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Quaid_sl said:
I don't understand... What MMORPGs aren't 'lasting more than a month or so'? WoW, Rift, SWTOR, TERA, GW2, ArchAge, Black Desert, AION, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14 etc etc etc are all still online and generating positive income...

In fact, the only major MMORPG made in the last decade (post-WoW era) to 'not last' was the one closest to EverQuest in design. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes.
Click to expand...
MMO Games List 2016 | MMORPG.com

How many of those do you think were actually successful?
 
D

Draegan_sl

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People still count the wow leveling portion part of the game? It's a really well made tutorial. Wows real level game is the ilevel portion where gear sticks for a while for the most part.
 
2

2002User

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Rezz_sl said:
Really though, how much coordination was required (placement et al) for EQ even during the heyday? You had your important people, ie the MT, enchanter, shaman, bard and then whatever cleric box group you had, and the puller/s. Everyone else were bodies that made stuff happen faster. Once something was tash'd/malo'd/slowed, it was just maintaining that slow while keeping the MT (and Ramp OT, for some encounters) alive until you won. It hardly required full 40+ person attention the entire time in the vast majority of cases. If it had, I'm positive the group I ran with at the time would not have killed everything in velious right around Luclin release (definitely not cutting edge!) even with the AA increments. There were 12-20 MAX important people involved in any raid. The rest were warm bodies who were at their keyboards.
Click to expand...
Yeah the raids were easy up to a certain point (although there were some interesting/difficult fights later--hi Rathe Council) but group content was a lot more challenging than MMOs nowadays. Even WoW had decent group challenges before they buffed AOE tanking in WoTLK for every class and made instances about holding AOE threat instead of setting up pulls and CC'ing adds.
 
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