EQ Never

Nice picture of Draegan you got there Laura.

The worst part was when I went back to pandaland in wow, and was running my 'lock through hyjal to hit 85. They threw so much shitty loot at me, (usually almost exactly the same, with minor varience) that I was literally bored of loot by the time I went from 80-82, and was dreading comparing stats on stuff because of how inflated and soullessly boring it was. "hmm, 152 ac, 111 int, 110 mastery, 82 crit, or 140 ac 113 int, 112 mastery, 80 crit." It didn't fucking matter, and became an utter chore to me, yet they constantly threw items at me for almost every other one of the ~100ish quests I did while running through. It all felt so stupid and pointless because I knew none of it would last me more than 1-2 RL hours or half a level at best

Tol_sl said:

The worst part was when I went back to pandaland in wow, and was running my 'lock through hyjal to hit 85. They threw so much shitty loot at me, (usually almost exactly the same, with minor varience) that I was literally bored of loot by the time I went from 80-82, and was dreading comparing stats on stuff because of how inflated and soullessly boring it was. "hmm, 152 ac, 111 int, 110 mastery, 82 crit, or 140 ac 113 int, 112 mastery, 80 crit." It didn't fucking matter, and became an utter chore to me, yet they constantly threw items at me for almost every other one of the ~100ish quests I did while running through. It all felt so stupid and po
intless because I knew none of it would last me more than 1-2 RL hours or half a level at best

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Thank god you really don't even have to do that! If it's the same item-level while leveling don't even bother looking. Just roll on. You'll also notice that with how much BoA gear there is now most people aren't checking most of that gear anyway. It gets better later on but upgrades are extremely obvious.

I-lvl upgrades are all that matter while leveling. And it's shown on the gear now iirc.

Heallun_sl said:

Thank god you really don't even have to do that! If it's the same item-level while leveling don't even bother looking. Just roll on.

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Thats exactly what I started doing, and exactly the point of my post: That loot became pretty boring and pointless until the end of the end. I'm not knocking it, because I know some people love stuff like that (especially d2 fans), but I'm disappointed that this seems the norm for every game now and I'm hoping in the future there will be games that offer less item saturation where loot feels more unique and interesting.

For example, while not an MMO, I feel like Dark Souls did loot fantastically for what I wanted. There were hundreds of item variations, but it was all a matter of personal choice, aesthetics, and what traits you liked about an item. I liked that the claymore or zweihander or short sword I found at the start of the game was every bit as viable as the shit I found 60+ hours later, and that I had the option to upgrade and enchant it over a dozen ways to suit my personal taste. Every weapon (outside of a handful which had terrible stat scaling or whatever) had different movesets which made them unique and interesting and worth upgrading and using a wide variety of different tactics. I'm like 300+ hours in dark souls and still playing with new weapon combos. I want something like that in MMOs: Less base items, but more wildly unique movesets or skills associated with them (maybe guild wars is onto something, but I would want it a lot more complex), and then hundreds of different personalized upgrade options via slotting or enchanting or whatever. I'm kind of sick of the disposable and boring 'Prefix thing of the suffix' items that all feel the same as their peers.

Anwyn_sl said:

tl;dr: introduce faux leveling systems but don't call them leveling systems. You can disguise it all you want, but if you need 'Plate Armor of the Whale' to kill a boss in a dungeon, but you can't get 'Plate Armor of the Whale' with the gear you start the game with, you have now introduced leveling and thus have content to be consumed to allow the player to get said armor to get the next tier to kill the boss. You won't ever be able to get away from it, because *gasp* leveling is progression, much as gear is. If you take away levels, all you end up with is the same thing you do at level cap in WoW: farm better items to farm better items to farm better items.

And I hope to god they never introduce EQ-style crafting ever again, especially anything remotely resembling Fletching.

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thank god at least one other person comprehends this.

Tol_sl said:

Thats exactly what I started doing, and exactly the point of my post: That loot became pretty boring and pointless until the end of the end. I'm not knocking it, because I know some people love stuff like that (especially d2 fans), but I'm disappointed that this seems the norm for every game now and I'm hoping in the future there will be games that offer less item saturation where loot feels more unique and interesting.

For example, while not an MMO, I feel like Dark Souls did loot fantastically for what I wanted. There were hundreds of item variations, but it was all a matter of personal choice, aesthetics, and what traits you liked about an item. I liked that the claymore or zweihander or short sword I found at the start of the game was every bit as viable as the shit I found 60+ hours later, and that I had the option to upgrade and enchant it over a dozen ways to suit my personal taste. Every weapon (outside of a handful which had terrible stat scaling or whatever) had different movesets which made them unique and interesting and worth upgrading and using a wide variety of different tactics. I'm like 300+ hours in dark souls and still playing with new weapon combos. I want something like that in MMOs: Less base items, but more wildly unique movesets or skills associated with them (maybe guild wars is onto something, but I would want it a lot more complex), and then hundreds of different personalized upgrade options via slotting or enchanting or whatever. I'm kind of sick of the disposable and boring 'Prefix thing of the suffix' items that all feel the same as their peers.

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Leveling quest rewards have always sucked in WoW. Not much to say--Path of Exile has items with unique shiz...as lot of ARPGs did. In mmo's you get to choose between pvp balance or cray items. It sucks but pvp is killing pve in a lot of games :|

Anwyn_sl said:

tl;dr: introduce faux leveling systems but don't call them leveling systems. You can disguise it all you want, but if you need 'Plate Armor of the Whale' to kill a boss in a dungeon, but you can't get 'Plate Armor of the Whale' with the gear you start the game with, you have now introduced leveling and thus have content to be consumed to allow the player to get said armor to get the next tier to kill the boss. You won't ever be able to get away from it, because *gasp* leveling is progression, much as gear is. If you take away levels, all you end up with is the same thing you do at level cap in WoW: farm better items to farm better items to farm better items.

And I hope to god they never introduce EQ-style crafting ever again, especially anything remotely resembling Fletching.

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Faux lvling system, yes much like what ppl have done in WOW when everyone is equal lvl but your gear matter. The suggestion was something like or close to Gear Score.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gear_score

Gear score is a numerical value based on the statistics of a player's gear. It is (supposedly) the maximum potential of a player's performance. However, it is up to the player to perform that well. In addition to item level (ilvl), the item's actual statistics or abilities may or may not be included for calculation, as determined by specific formulas or addons.
Most commonly, gear scores are a metric used to evaluate the relative strength of a player's equipment as a way of determining if that player meets a given threshold to join in certain raids or groups going through an instance. It should be noted that a given gear score, no matter which formula is used, does not necessarily mean that other players can not demand higher scores from others before joining a raid or group.

Despite the possible flaws in the system, gear score can be a useful tool in determining an individual player's readiness for certain content. Rather than risking the waste of time and money on wipes and repair bills, gear score can provide a basic indication that a player is likely to possess gear sufficient to run (or even trivialize) the content in question. There is no substitute for checking a player's choice of gems, enchants, glyphs, and spec, plus knowledge of appropriate caps (hit, haste, and/or crit), all of which reveal far more about a player than for what gear he or she has managed to win rolls or purchased by running heroics.

That said, when used as an initial assessment of a player, followed by inspections of their Armory profile (which does display things like item enhancements and achievements), gear score can allow the quick and efficient assembling of groups and raids intending to take on difficult content. Be warned: reliance on gear score, without following up the initial assessment with the armory or inspecting, is in fact counterproductive. It degrades the community by encouraging less knowledgeable players to "upgrade" based strictly on item levels, as well as decreasing the motivation of some players to improve (as they receive raid invites and rolls on loot without needing to do so).

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I understand your point but here is where that get thrown out the window with that "Plate Armor of the Whale to kill a boss in a dungeon" thing needing lvls to gain this item.


Follow me for a min and going to assume in this point for this one example maybe two, can give more but will just pick these two.


Assumptions:
EQ and you were lvl 60 playing at the time when Velious just came out.

The Subject:
NToV and the armor, weapons and etc.

With your example of "Plate Armor of the Whale' to kill a boss in a dungeon" as a new player in this expansion. First did you run straight to NToV and start kicking ass? Or did you need to gear up from other kills and start bringing more ppl to help in the task as needed?



Another one

Assumption:
You were lvl 60 when Planes of Power game came out, within week(s) you hop to lvl 65 (game max) and still havent done the Justice trials yet before hitting lvl cap. Thus making it unlikely you were able to get into the many other zones for this expac. (This has changed but only many years later, they have removed the keying unlocks now)

Subject:
Planes of Power and the armor, weapons and etc.

You needing to kill X mob to get to X zone unlock to be able to kill X boss for better gear and repeat again for X zone and X mob...etc...etc. But if you happen to piggyback on a guild for zone unlocks, how well you to think you would do on just the yard trash for those unlocked zone much less the bosses with a group or raid?

End examples...........





Mind you you have gear progression but this doesnt need lvls to complete. If you want to kill X boss you need to get geared up to do it. You have many games with endgame content and this is much later and after a good amount of players have hit lvl caps.

Crafting, I will agree Fletching sucked. I too didnt enjoy it much and many of the other crafting professions on it eating my stuff or looking for that new recipe. They fixed it later but still not great but is better.

Dude... What are you not understanding here...

Grinding levels = progression
Grinding gear = progression

Therefore, grinding gear = grinding levels = progression

Yerp. Levels are just an abstraction of player power. They're more honest than AAs and gear are in that they are visible metrics in most games. I think it's pretty easy to check someone's gearscore in WoW, but that's a relatively recent conceit - a byproduct of the LFD/R system.

I personally have absolutely no faith in EQ3 whatsoever. They will fuck it up just like they fuck everything else up. Why wouldn't they? Did something change? Nah... just one big, giant fuck up.

SOE sucks balls. I fkin hate 'em.

Quaid_sl said:

Dude... What are you not understanding here...

Grinding levels = progression
Grinding gear = progression

Therefore, grinding gear = grinding levels = progression

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i vote we remove the title doctor from his name.

SlyyDaugg_sl said:

I personally have absolutely no faith in EQ3 whatsoever. They will fuck it up just like they fuck everything else up. Why wouldn't they? Did something change? Nah... just one big, giant fuck up.

SOE sucks balls. I fkin hate 'em.

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/shrug SoE certainly has had their fair share of screw ups. But most people like PS2, and I still log into EQ1 occasionally. PS1 was glorious for a few months and I even enjoyed EQ2 for a bit. There is a ton of things they could do better though.

EQNext probably wont be the game I am hoping for but it is a good bet to be entertaining, and I suspect I'll spend more time there than I do in most other mmos.

B Mac creating jobs in this economy. Praise.

Oops. Wrong thread.

Grim1_sl said:

Nice picture of Draegan you got there Laura.

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Lol I kind of like it, I have a crush on Draegan you know.

You mean he's not hiring Salty for EQ:Next? He doesn't care about EQBrowser?

You mean he didn't hire Salty? =)