shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,410
- 186
The soul setups were cool i must say. I played a mage also and did arcon in raids... so had 2 arcon builds and 2 dps builds, one AE one single ... was cool
EQ Never
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tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Dude, if EQN completely flops we are fucked for a good MMO for the next ten+ years - I'll we get is more of the same failed WoW-clones. So better to cross fingers and hope.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 601
Yea i dont like cookie cutter or flavour of the month builds either.
But even EQ was a bit better because u only had several slots. So you could have 2 necros with identical classes but one might have just a bunch of dots memmed, and the other might have nukes and some utility like screaming terror or whatever. So even though the class is identical, two people might play it very differently in a group and one might end up being the cleverer because he uses screaming terror and has harmshield memmed for mishaps when a mez breaks or whatever. Another guy might just be a typical bonehead necro that uses lots of dots and nukes and doesnt have any utility.
Vanguard kinda misses that because you can have every spell laid out on your hotbars so everyone has everything the same as everyone. Maybe restricting it to 8 or something is better?
But even EQ was a bit better because u only had several slots. So you could have 2 necros with identical classes but one might have just a bunch of dots memmed, and the other might have nukes and some utility like screaming terror or whatever. So even though the class is identical, two people might play it very differently in a group and one might end up being the cleverer because he uses screaming terror and has harmshield memmed for mishaps when a mez breaks or whatever. Another guy might just be a typical bonehead necro that uses lots of dots and nukes and doesnt have any utility.
Vanguard kinda misses that because you can have every spell laid out on your hotbars so everyone has everything the same as everyone. Maybe restricting it to 8 or something is better?
yea i thought it was really cool too. My only concern is that it takes them a long time and a lot of effort to make classes that varied. Thats why they only technically had 4 classes, each one just happened to be able to split various ways. EQ had rigid classes but it had like a dozen or whatever, each very different and had their own flavour. Wish i could have the best of both worlds.
Yeah, but he wasn't specific at all. When asked about it,Brasse said this. Not saying she would necessarily know the facts because if EQ Next is truly so shrouded in secrecy, she may not have had any idea what he was implying. But it just sounds like a coy way of saying something more than a beta will hit. For as direct as Smedley can be, I don't take this:
"Players will get their hands on an actual release version of what we're doing late [this] year - and I don't mean a beta"
To mean "OMG we're releasing this year." That's a twist of words that gives them room to release something beyond a typical beta thatwon'tbe the final game, and not piss people off in the process.
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What I'd kinda like to see in terms of class design is more major mechanics differences between classes. Some classes use slow paced GCD(2-3seconds) or slow casts, but very impactful abilities, some classes use fast paced combo system(not wow combo but like skill A > skill B or C > skill D chains with B and skill E chains with C etc) with a 1.0-1.5s GCD, some healers use mostly non targetted spells that are position/facing based, some healers use direct targetting whackamole healing systems etc.
You'd need quite a lot of classes and I guess balancing could be an issue but the point would be that you can play one class then reroll another class of the same role and have a completely different experience instead of having spells that do more or less the same thing in slightly different fashion(one direct heal vs one heal+hot for the same value/cast time/mana cost).
It'd also please more people I think by having more playstyles available to people, some people like whackamole healing, some people prefer more "freeform" healing, some people like fast pace but some people prefer slow pace combat. An even better way would be to have "specs" for any given class that use those different systems so anyone can play a cleric, they just choose if they want to play the whackamole "healing" spec or the positional "holy" spec.
It is very unlikely devs would do this because of the additional work but I think it'd be pretty great for a mmo to have really changing experiences when playing 2 classes or 2 specs, over what oftens amounts to cosmetics change and slight gameplay changes between 2 classes of the same role. This is a bit like how Vanguard had typical healers(cleric) and damage to heal healers(bloodmage) and something inbetween (disciple). Playing a Blood Mage was a completely different experience than playing Cleric, not because the spells were red instead of yellow and had slightly different effects, but because playing a blood mage required an entirely different mindset than cleric did. I think this could be pushed further.
You'd need quite a lot of classes and I guess balancing could be an issue but the point would be that you can play one class then reroll another class of the same role and have a completely different experience instead of having spells that do more or less the same thing in slightly different fashion(one direct heal vs one heal+hot for the same value/cast time/mana cost).
It'd also please more people I think by having more playstyles available to people, some people like whackamole healing, some people prefer more "freeform" healing, some people like fast pace but some people prefer slow pace combat. An even better way would be to have "specs" for any given class that use those different systems so anyone can play a cleric, they just choose if they want to play the whackamole "healing" spec or the positional "holy" spec.
It is very unlikely devs would do this because of the additional work but I think it'd be pretty great for a mmo to have really changing experiences when playing 2 classes or 2 specs, over what oftens amounts to cosmetics change and slight gameplay changes between 2 classes of the same role. This is a bit like how Vanguard had typical healers(cleric) and damage to heal healers(bloodmage) and something inbetween (disciple). Playing a Blood Mage was a completely different experience than playing Cleric, not because the spells were red instead of yellow and had slightly different effects, but because playing a blood mage required an entirely different mindset than cleric did. I think this could be pushed further.
This has been seen in other games and I know of one coming that has something like this except its based on the weapon and not necessarily the class.
The problem with slow moving yet high damage attacks has always been balance. Generally developers say "Ok, normalize dps vs swing speed and we are good!" but that is only half the picture. That slow ass swing that does larger amounts of damage needs to also take into account parry, dodge, misses etc otherwise that dps normalization wasn't nearly enough. Developers just don't take it far enough to make it worth while.
Hopefully that might change, we shall see.
Pretty much agree. I don't deny being a hardcore fan of the original EQ so maybe my opinion has some bias in it (to be fair, it didn't prevent me from quitting EQ2 within a month), but I'm starting to view EQN as one of the last remaining hopes to get me back into MMOs. I play a shitload of games that aren't MMOs (actually, that's mostly what I do) so it's not a total loss if it doesn't hold my attention, but it will suck ass. I want to want to play an MMO, but most developers aren't even trying at this point. They're either too scared to not be a WoW clone or too scared of the genre period.
Besides, there's no place like home, which in MMO-land is Norrath for me.
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Well I think you counter the miss/parry/dodge stuff with class specific mechanics, like you have passives that make your next hit never miss if you miss one, higher hit rate than other classes and stuff like that. The only classes that do this generally are like casters, where they give them 2-3secs cast spells compared to lower cast time or GCD on melee attacks, but I feel it'd be nice to have a melee that has slow pace too for people who want to do that, like slow 2H combat vs quick dualwield/fist combat. I know some aspects have been done to an extent, even wow has varying GCDs(rogues/feral are 1secs, everything else is 1.5) but I think having a much bigger difference would prove to be more interesting.
Anyway more than class customization, which I find cool but generally useless in the end due to spreadsheet and minmaxing, I hope they have varied classes with large playstyle differences so I can roll another class and have fun leveling that because it's different and not because it's slightly more powerful than the one I had before due to fotm patches.
my AE group (2 chanters, 2 wizzies, a bard and a cleric) will kill 100 times the amount of mobs that your shaman/necro group will in about a third of the time.
Dr Neir
Trakanon Raider
- 832
- 1,505
For 2hander, I like how DDO handled it. AOE. Hits anything in range of the weapon. I dont remember other games doing that before DDO. Not sure.
I miss EQ's one expansion experiment on the living items (lvl or growing). Things like the Pants, Shield and Dagger, there were others. Some talked and others didnt but you could unlock and lvl those items. Wish they kept up with that or allowed later unlocks and upgrades for them.
Ref:
Nogglegrop Fendlebar the Unwilling
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=44757
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM PLACEABLE
Evolving: Level 1/3
Slot: SECONDARY
AC: 30
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
DEX: +5 STA: +7 CHA: +5 WIS: +6 INT: +6 HP: +45 MANA: +45 ENDUR: +45
SV FIRE: +4 SV DISEASE: +4 SV COLD: +4 SV POISON: +4
Required level of 55.
WT: 4.5 Size: GIANT
Class: ALL except MNK BST BER
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 7 (General: Group)
Slot 2, Type 20 (Ornamentation)
I miss EQ's one expansion experiment on the living items (lvl or growing). Things like the Pants, Shield and Dagger, there were others. Some talked and others didnt but you could unlock and lvl those items. Wish they kept up with that or allowed later unlocks and upgrades for them.
Ref:
Nogglegrop Fendlebar the Unwilling
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=44757
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM PLACEABLE
Evolving: Level 1/3
Slot: SECONDARY
AC: 30
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
DEX: +5 STA: +7 CHA: +5 WIS: +6 INT: +6 HP: +45 MANA: +45 ENDUR: +45
SV FIRE: +4 SV DISEASE: +4 SV COLD: +4 SV POISON: +4
Required level of 55.
WT: 4.5 Size: GIANT
Class: ALL except MNK BST BER
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 7 (General: Group)
Slot 2, Type 20 (Ornamentation)
RobXIII
Urinal Cake Consumption King
- 3,990
- 2,529
I would love to see a return of the Magician class. I love me controllable pets, and summoning useful shit.
I still remember the patch they added Summon: endure breath stone or whatever. It was simple, but I was happy as a clam soloing Kedge Keep. I thought the fish were giving a bit too much exp (turns out it was a super high zone exp modifier, noone knew that was in game at the time).
My hopes for EQ Next:
1) Difficult, not annoying
2) Reward exploration
3) Magician like class
4) Ok ok I admit, I like collectables(shinies in EQ2 and Rift). Why not add stories/lore if you complete a set
5) Reward exploration again!
I still remember the patch they added Summon: endure breath stone or whatever. It was simple, but I was happy as a clam soloing Kedge Keep. I thought the fish were giving a bit too much exp (turns out it was a super high zone exp modifier, noone knew that was in game at the time).
My hopes for EQ Next:
1) Difficult, not annoying
2) Reward exploration
3) Magician like class
4) Ok ok I admit, I like collectables(shinies in EQ2 and Rift). Why not add stories/lore if you complete a set
5) Reward exploration again!
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,410
- 186
Randin
Trakanon Raider
- 1,933
- 892
This is more of a lore/thematic thing than a game mechanics thing (although it could certainly bleed over into that), but what the hell, one thing I'd like to see class-wise is for them to come up with a more fleshed-out idea of what a wizard is, in comparison to the other mage classes. I didnt play one in EQ1, but I did in EQ2, and it felt like...like wizards were defined by being the mages that didn't have any of the defining features of the other mage classes (summoning elementals, raising the undead, mind control, etc), but got to do the generic mage stuff better in exchange. There is a certain appeal in that, since I usually want to play a straight-up mage, and not an illusionist or pet user, but it'd still be nice if their was a more concrete idea of what a wizard is. The fact that their spell aesthetics have so much in common with the non-summoning spells of the magician/conjuror (as an aside, I prefer the name 'conjuror' for that class, it's more descriptive), really doesn't help matters.
I also kinda feel like warriors have a similar issue, being largely defined as, "the fighter class which doesn't have magic, or hunting and tracking skills, or kung fu, etc"; being defined by what they lack, rather than what they have.
I also kinda feel like warriors have a similar issue, being largely defined as, "the fighter class which doesn't have magic, or hunting and tracking skills, or kung fu, etc"; being defined by what they lack, rather than what they have.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I dont know, Dumar. Sounds like every other wizard/mage/druid in EQ back then, who sucked at grouping because they never learned it proper but were pro at various solo kite tricks. Problem is you only realize you're in trouble once said wizard forgets to snare (they are ok at that because you snare while soloing), and tries to sit down to mem evac while you have half a dungeon swarming your group. Plenty of bads all over old EQ.
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After playing GW2 I'm not sure it's such a great idea. I liked the Vanguard way though, movement penalty while casting. You can still move but it's not like full speed so you still have the tradeoff move the fuck away/ do damage which I feel is kinda important. It also reduces the impact of instant cast spells if you can just move at full speed while casting long spells.