EQ Never

tad10 · Aug 7, 2013

Big Flex_sl said:
IthinkI read somewhere that they were going to provide incentives for people to be "pure" classes, for those wishing to not participate in multiclassing.

Nope. Asked this specifically at SOELive.

Response: Game Design is for people to multiclass. If you give advantage to single classers you blow up the whole design.

etchazz · Aug 7, 2013

tad10_sl said:
Nope. Asked this specifically at SOELive.

Response: Game Design is for people to multiclass. If you give advantage to single classers you blow up the whole design.

nail. in. coffin.

tad10 · Aug 7, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
nail. in. coffin.

That's why the first six months will be fun.
There will be advantage to single classing. You'll get your guy to tier 5 before the people trying to level multiple classes.
But at some point you need to start branching.

Dumar_sl · Aug 7, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
nail. in. coffin.

All they've done is taken classes and made them another piece of loot with restrictions. Not sure what's so innovative or even welcome about that.

zzeris · Aug 7, 2013

Dumar_sl said:
This industry has the unfortunate habit of ignoring psychology and not looking to the deeper level of anything. It's like designers say 'this seems cool and players will like it coz it's fun', which is a derpness that pervades this shitty industry. Great game designers need to look deeper.

An identity is more than a player name: it's the activity taken by that character in the context of the world. When I think back, most of the memories I have of players obviously involved some activity with them or they performed. Bob was a great druid because he evacced at just the right time. Bob wasn't a great druid last night, a decent warrior tonight, and maybe a good quad kiting wizard tomorrow. Multiply this by the number of friends or guildmates a person has in the world, and the number of 'narratives' that must be kept track of to associate with Bob and the others, and what you end up with psychically is a break down of any identity to Bob with the activity, and by extension, his class, that he performed.

What this will lead to is that nobody will really care what class you are or when. It's whatever wanna be at the moment, and this type of mechanic will lead to very weak identity, which will lead to weak attachment to others and the world, which will likely lead to weaker player retention over the long-term in my mind.

Or just possibly, Bob the Druid likes to play druid most of the time but is a pretty good warrior when needed. Bob is remembered just as easily because you remember the player not the class he played. Why can't Bob be a good quad kiting wizard? Oh yeah, that's right. because if he is, you might forget his name...

Randin · Aug 7, 2013

supertouch_sl said:
Was the ogre curse established in EQ or was that something they came up with in EQ 2 to justify the new ogre model? If they're changing the lore for this game then I don't see why we can't play ugly dudes.

EQ. The EQ manual, actually. Iirc, when Luclin came out, they then said that by escaping the bounds of Norrath by going to the moon, ogres broke the curse on themselves, explaining why their model was so different.

Never really explained the trolls, however...

zzeris · Aug 7, 2013

It's sad that the main example used that people want a re-skinned EQ is Dark Souls. I'd love for them to make EQ3 with some of the extra money they make off this game but using Dark Souls as the prime example of people needing EQ3 in their life? Pretty thin thread of logic ther...oops it broke.

xzi · Aug 7, 2013

Or they could just go fucking play EQ or Dark Souls and quit being little bitches.

Teekey · Aug 7, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
it's sad that you never heard of a game called dark souls which makes your statement completely obsolete.

Where's the Dark Souls MMO then?

etchazz · Aug 7, 2013

zzeris_sl said:
It's sad that the main example used that people want a re-skinned EQ is Dark Souls. I'd love for them to make EQ3 with some of the extra money they make off this game but using Dark Souls as the prime example of people needing EQ3 in their life? Pretty thin thread of logic ther...oops it broke.

it's sad that fuckwits like you that never even played EQ are trying to comprehend why the people that did play it want another game that is similar.

Dumar_sl · Aug 7, 2013

zzeris_sl said:
Or just possibly, Bob the Druid likes to play druid most of the time but is a pretty good warrior when needed. Bob is remembered just as easily because you remember the player not the class he played. Why can't Bob be a good quad kiting wizard? Oh yeah, that's right. because if he is, you might forget his name...

I think their level of derpness is pretty astronomical.

Bob, your friends, and your guildies. All of them you have to create an identity for in relation to the world, to Norrath. Bob is remembered along with everyone else, but what they do isn't. If Bob switches classes everyday, along with everyone else, then, in the final analysis, what class Bob is, what class your friends are, what class you are doesn't or won't make a difference because it's too many to associate in your mind.

A consequence of this, as the most awesome irony and a good example of ineptitude in game design, is that by this mechanic, people will not care about the class and only care about fulfilling a role, which is the opposite of what they want. It won't matter what class you become as long as you fulfill a function, whereas in a strict and static class mechanic like EverQuest, you focused much more on the class itself BECAUSE the class itself performed the role.

Modern game designers, they suck rotunga balls.

Caliel · Aug 7, 2013

tad10_sl said:
The biggest single problem with EQN is that the slogan is "Play the way you want". But if you want to just play a monk you can't.

That slogan is their biggest problem. They want you to play as you want, but only within their strict guidelines. They have already said there will be no healers or tanks as we know in the holy trinity. So if people want to play like that, well guess what. They can't. Their slogan has failed.

I also do not see why everyone believes they can pull off the type of AI that they are claiming they can. If they had a working AI like they say they want to use, then they would have shown it to us already. Since their AI isn't finished yet, I have absolutely no faith in what they say about it until I see it. This is mostly being pessimistic about the combat AI, not the quest AI. I have a little faith in storybricks since it isn't directly made by SOE.

Teekey · Aug 7, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
it's sad that fuckwits like you that never even played EQ are trying to comprehend why the people that did play it want another game that is similar.

We understand just fine. It's you who can't seem to grasp that the market is too small for it to be worth their time.

And just for pointing that out, you attack us and doubt we played EQ. It's comical, really.

etchazz · Aug 7, 2013

Dumar_sl said:
All they've done is taken classes and made them another piece of loot with restrictions. Not sure what's so innovative or even welcome about that.

the worst part about it from what i've read is that it isn't even really multi classing, is it? i mean, can you be a warrior/wizard/cleric/bard simultaneously? can you just take the skills/abilities from each of the classes you like and infuse them to create your own hybrid?

Teekey · Aug 7, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
the worst part about it from what i've read is that it isn't even really multi classing, is it? i mean, can you be a warrior/wizard/cleric/bard simultaneously? can you just take the skills/abilities from each of the classes you like and infuse them to create your own hybrid?

Yes? Your Weapon Abilities are still tied to your base class, but all your Class Abilities can be Warrior/Wizard/Cleric/Bard - even if your base class is a Druid.

etchazz · Aug 7, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
We understand just fine. It's you who can't seem to grasp that the market is too small for it to be worth their time.

And just for pointing that out, you attack us and doubt we played EQ. It's comical, really.

you keep saying the market is too small. where is your fucking proof? EQ had over a half a million players 10 years ago, when most of the gaming world didn't even know what a MMO was. so why do you think that almost a decade later that only a handful of people would want to play a game like that? the fact is, you and all the other WoW tards will continue to jerk each other off and talk about all these new, great games that are out, but you don't even play any of them and you're too fucking stupid to even understand why they can't hold your interest for more than a few weeks.

zzeris · Aug 7, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
it's sad that fuckwits like you that never even played EQ are trying to comprehend why the people that did play it want another game that is similar.

What's sad is to see a little fuckwit like you not understand the market has passed you by. I played EQ, enjoyed it but understood that time doesn't stand still. You, well, obviously the past decade has been pretty hard for you. Oh, if EQ3 is really made, it won't be a re-skin of what you like. Bring on the tears bitch.

tad10 · Aug 8, 2013

Caliel_sl said:
Since their AI isn't finished yet, I have absolutely no faith in what they say about it until I see it. This is mostly being pessimistic about the combat AI, not the quest AI. I have a little faith in storybricks since it isn't directly made by SOE.

I actually think SB can pull off a smart combat AI but that raises more questions than it answers:

1. Can the hardcore playerbase actually handle responding to this smart AI? Probably
2. Can the casual playerbase handle this? Look at how many people die on Beg/Int bots in LOL. I'm guessing no.

It's going to be an interesting beta...

zzeris · Aug 8, 2013

Dumar,

The main goal of both games is for people to get together and fulfill goals. One uses a rigid class formula to provide this vehicle. One won't but still will use the underlying premise of giving people ways to get together to accomplish goals. It's main difference is giving a less stringent group of barriers to actually even start accomplishing those goals.

Saying "I like using the rigid class formula of EQ a lot and would prefer it" is perfectly normal. Saying that a new game with different ways of accomplishing a goal is wowtard easy and ruins your identity even though the game is extremely early? Now that sounds like an astronomically huge level of derp indeed.

Teekey · Aug 8, 2013

etchazz_sl said:
you keep saying the market is too small. where is your fucking proof? EQ had over a half a million players 10 years ago, when most of the gaming world didn't even know what a MMO was. so why do you think that almost a decade later that only a handful of people would want to play a game like that? the fact is, you and all the other WoW tards will continue to jerk each other off and talk about all these new, great games that are out, but you don't even play any of them and you're too fucking stupid to even understand why they can't hold your interest for more than a few weeks.

How many boxes did Vanguard sell?

EQ Never

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