EQ Never

Teekey · Aug 8, 2013

supertouch_sl said:
A lot of people misuse the term strawman, but this is the definition of it.

I don't think anyone here has ever argued that you can't mix "hardcore" and modern features. In fact, I think that's what most are in favor of.

Grim1_sl said:
Yeah. I've even had that argument with him just a couple days ago and he conveniently forgets it now. It's pathetic.

Actually I will apologize, because I misread what Grim1 said. You said can and not can't, that was my mistake.

Ambiturner · Aug 8, 2013

You sure have fallen in love with this "face roll" phrase. Eq really wasn't very difficult compared to modern MMOs. More unforgiving with death penalties, but otherwise very simplistic

Grim1 · Aug 8, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
I never claimed it would fail. But I don't think it would be a success like League of MineQuest will be.

You want me to go back and read earlier posts in the thread? I found one where you actually make sense and aren't just frothing at the mouth to call everyone a casual pussy.

And if you read my post again you'll notice I'm talking about their state of mind. Not if they are right or not. Those same people have the same state of mind that you do. You are all blinded by WoW. It's fucking pathetic, especially since you keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

Casual games fail, why make another one?

Teekey · Aug 8, 2013

Grim1_sl said:
And if you read my post again you'll notice I'm talking about their state of mind. Not if they are right or not. Those same people have the same state of mind that you do. You are all blinded by WoW. It's fucking pathetic.

I have a feeling EverQuest Next Landmark is going to beHUGE.

And that is certainly going to bolster EverQuest Next's numbers.

Grim1 · Aug 8, 2013

Ambiturner_sl said:
You sure have fallen in love with this "face roll" phrase. Eq really wasn't very difficult compared to modern MMOs. More unforgiving with death penalties, but otherwise very simplistic

Blah, blah, blah. Did you get to 60 in a day when you played EQ? A week? A month? Or 6 months? Did you solo a dragon? It was possible, but not by very many. Did you awaken the sleeper? Did you kill him?

Piss off.

iannis · Aug 8, 2013

Grumpus_sl said:
Also think the hardest classes to get should have wildcard type slots.

Charlie would be fun to play, but I think Dennis has a better endgame.

Teekey · Aug 8, 2013

Grim1_sl said:
Blah, blah, blah. Did you get to 60 in a day when you played EQ? A week? A month? Or 6 months? Did you solo a dragon? It was possible, but not by very many. Did you awaken the sleeper? Did you kill him?

Piss off.

I don't think anyone is disputing that EverQuest was a huge time sink in just about every regard. That has nothing to do with it's difficulty.

And the mechanics for killing a Dragon, or even the Sleeper were VERY simple. I think that's the point. Mechanically, it was not a very difficult game, overall.

Convo · Aug 8, 2013

Carl_sl said:
The issue is there are features that clearly suck and serve no purpose but to punish you, not for playing badly but for playing at all. Sitting on your ass waiting for something to happen at a spawn, Being incapable of progressing because you play a social class and there are no open groups, these are game killers, These are things that dark souls and eve have none of but that EQ was based entirely on. Eve and dark souls are not relatable to everquest in any way because the thing that makes those games hardcore is high difficulty and pvp, and the thing that makes everquest hardcore isn't the act of playing the game it's the act of sitting through not getting to play the game. Everquest wasn't difficult in any way and its features put in to a new game wouldn't make for a difficult game. The only thing that relates to eve in everquest is the death penalty and that's it. You'll come back with some angry bullshit but you will still be wrong. There is nothing hard about hoping a percent chance of failure doesn't happen. There's nothing hard about waiting for your puller to split what was supposed to be a linked encounter with a bug, in fact that's easier than most games. You know you are wrong if you disagree with this simply because every single one of you make me a new EQ faggots was talking about how you hate actually having to participate in combat. Every single one of you wanted to be a able to half ass your night away grinding in one room, auto attacking and sometimes SOMETIMES actually casting a spell.

I'm not sure anyone is calling for classes in EQ where they have no solo options. I think we all acknowledge there should be some. It's the level of soloing people have issues with. Again, I think with Rally calls that would eliminate some of that downtime. I think that's why people are stirring a bit for EQ3. B/c you see all the cool stuff in EQN and you want it your own version of EQ3 even tho that probably varies from person to person. Also you can't discount class interdependence we spoke about and the Dev's even acknowledged.

I'm trying to be reasonable here b/c I support EQN and what they are setting out to do. I get that they are super passionate about their approach. We could end up playing it for years but for right now, I'm cautiously optimistic and the class system doesn't really excite me. Hopefully in time with more info it will.

tad10 · Aug 8, 2013

Randin_sl said:
You've brought up lack of downtime a few times here, but have they actually said anything about what downtime will look like? I don't recall it coming up in any of the panel videos.

Wouldn't be terribly surprised if it turns out to be short downtime, and we're certainly not going back to the five+ minute downtimes of EQ, but I'm just not aware of any definitive statements about it.

Just going off of DCUO's combat. But you're right, no statement. We'll see, I am certainly very interested in beta-ing this game.

supertouch_sl · Aug 8, 2013

EQ was more unforgiving, thus more exciting. Modern mmo raids may be more challenging but it doesn't really add to the overall experience.

Teekey · Aug 8, 2013

So back on topic instead of pointless arguing.

EQHammer: Another facet of what we've been discussing so far is that overarching question as to whether EQN will ultimately be a very social-friendly game. For example, meaningful group content outside of instances has become a lost art form in MMOs in favor of "accessibility", much to the chagrin of social gamers.

Dave: We want people to get together, and then overcome challenges together. That's what a social MMO is supposed to be. Solo is great and fine, and there's nothing wrong with it, but there will be challenges that you will not be able to overcome without other players.

EQHammer: You showed some badass, large monsters in the demo footage like the Iron Golem. Will encounters on that scale be contested stuff found out in the world, or will you be using any instancing to do more set-piece combat scenarios?

Dave: We're not opposed to having the occasional instance, but that's not really what our game is about. Our game is about the open world exploration and zoneless boundaries. What we want to do is set things up so that when we do use an instance, it's for a very specific reason, so occasionally we'll have something like that. But most of the world is not set up that way; instancing is just a tool that lets people have different experiences.

Click to expand...

EQHammer: What kinds of things will you be doing to make sure that in EQN the world is still recognizably Norrath? For example, in the presentation, Feerrott captured the spirit of that zone to me, but will there be a lot of major landmarks that people would see and instantly know what they are?

Dave: You bet! We're really serious about making sure that those points of familiarity are there. Maybe not all of the cities will be there at the beginning.

Let's just say that a long time ago - and I'll let the stories tell all the real details here - but we, the races of Antonica, got our butts kicked by the Ring of Scale and driven off the continent like you saw in the sand painting. Now it's many hundreds of years later, and we're coming back to the continent and rediscovering it. So all the rudimentary stuff is still there, but we're going to experience it in different ways. We might rediscover races that have been out of contact for a long time. There's a lot of mystery, exploration, and archeology that all comes into play as you do that.

So you keep finding stuff that you're totally familiar with, but then there are new stories and new experiences that go with it.

Click to expand...

Teekey · Aug 8, 2013

supertouch_sl said:
EQ was more unforgiving, thus more exciting. Modern mmo raids may be more challenging but it doesn't really add to the overall experience.

Was there really much risk in max level raids, other than like, Plane of Fear? After a certain point, a lot of the risk seemed to evaporate. You sure as fuck still didn't want to die, but there were always Rogues to drag corpses and Clerics to rez.

Quaid · Aug 8, 2013

Mr. Georgeson sure knows how to tickle my willies

Kharza-kzad_sl · Aug 8, 2013

Veeshan's peak was supposed to be risky, but I guess they forgot we could just resurrect an old body outside to get out.

The plane of time was a bit of an unknown. There were theories that you'd need the gate necklace to get out before we went in. One of the elders in tranquility talks a lot about it if you have the flags. Speaks of "binding in the now". Turned out to be just another zone though.

arallu · Aug 8, 2013

Getting the right amount of classes on, awake, attentive, and in the right place before another guild.

Felmega_sl · Aug 8, 2013

Grim1_sl said:
I think the better question is why does the MMO dev community keep making face roll WoW clones that fail? Why do people think that another one wont? There is plenty of proof that casual play games fail all the time. WoW is the only exception.

And the clueless twits who claim that there isn't a market for hardcore games ignore EvE and Darksouls like the plague. Hey, if they love the casual crap so much then they should go play the bazzilion failures that exist to this day. Claiming there isn't a market for hardcore games and then ignoring the fact that casual games fail every day is the height of idiocy.

I hope youre not insinuating that EQN is a WoW clone... They are nothing alike. And btw, this is SoE, EQN is going to be hardcore at the top percentile.

Grumpus · Aug 8, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
So back on topic instead of pointless arguing.

EQHammer: Another facet of what we've been discussing so far is that overarching question as to whether EQN will ultimately be a very social-friendly game. For example, meaningful group content outside of instances has become a lost art form in MMOs in favor of "accessibility", much to the chagrin of social gamers.

Dave: We want people to get together, and then overcome challenges together. That's what a social MMO is supposed to be. Solo is great and fine, and there's nothing wrong with it, but there will be challenges that you will not be able to overcome without other players.

Can you imagine the kind of social iterations would go on if stuff like digging the EC tunnel would allow for if it was actually difficult to do?

Lets say that you need to free the shady swashbuckler from prison to get the rallying call to start. But it won't start until someone approaches him with max level mining, and it has to be at night so all the shops are closed.

First off the person who did those things would be famous on your server.

Then make it so that every square that needs to be mined takes 500 picks with a pickaxe to clear 1 square. And you can have more then 1 person on 1 square. There is no combat going on and everyone wants to clear the tunnel so everyone is gathered around with nothing to do but pick away and chat.

Then just as you are about to break through to the other side a sand giant kicks down the remaining blocks and starts annihilating everybody and are eventually killed.

In a game where that is possible social interaction would be amazing.

Edit- Add all that sharing shit that the PS4 will have and they actually deliver.
Yelling at your friends to hurry up and get home because the EC tunnel is being dug out, or Halas is getting built. Who wouldn't want to play that?

iannis · Aug 8, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
Was there really much risk in max level raids, other than like, Plane of Fear? After a certain point, a lot of the risk seemed to evaporate. You sure as fuck still didn't want to die, but there were always Rogues to drag corpses and Clerics to rez.

The risk in max level raids was wasting the absolute fuck out of your time and not getting any loot. Was there risk of losing anything besides xp? Nah, xp loss was a granted. That wasn't even a risk. The risk was in not gaining anything.

Christ, I remember the 1st PoF clear on our server. We took so fucking long the zone was repoping behind us as we killed Cazic. And if you were anybody who was anybody, you were there for the ENTIRE duration.

So yeah, there was a lot of risk. But it was a different sort.

All of that old "Risk vs Reward" talk could basically be boiled down to "some of this shit is not worth the time it takes to do, some of this other shit is worth way more time than it takes to do"

Kharza-kzad_sl · Aug 8, 2013

Maybe when you dig to the middle of the east commons tunnel, Peter Molyneux will be waiting.

Vaclav · Aug 8, 2013

EQ1 being 'hard' is laughable coming from people that largely quit during GoD when EQ1 finally started being consistently difficult versus 95 percent of encounters being trivial with a cleric lead that could handle some pretty basic math.

Besides that it was only pulling - which was often semi exploitative - that defined difficulty. (Permalulling, bugged pulls like Dain in the well)

The pacing was better back in the day but it was not difficult.

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