EQ Never

Zehn - Vhex_sl said:

Then you end up with the situation we had in DDO where you just always tanked mobs in a doorway. They couldn't get around you so you just had one guy load the fuck up on defensive gear, put up his shield and just stand there.

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I'm not necessarily against this mechanic, especially with destructible voxel tech. Collision detection is almost mandatory if you want to get rid of taunt, and taunt is a very cheesy mechanic. I would like to see more realism in game combat and blocking a doorway is much more realistic than what we have now. The standard trinity is based more on taunt than anything else, without it healers would always be first targets.

But with destructible voxel tech the devs have the ability to give mobs (and players) a way to get around the door being blocked by some massively over powered tank type, thereby giving the enemy achanceto get to the soft targets in back. If (andIFis always the most important point) the devs do their jobs properly it could be an amazingly fun mechanic that lends more realism (thereby immersion) to the game and increases the tactical options at the same time. It would also save the trinity, while also expanding upon it by giving other classes a larger role in combat. The trinity isn't in itself bad, it is the fucked up artificial taunt mechanics that has made them such a travesty.

The other positive to this is open world combat. A group caught out in the open when being attacked will have a very hard time protecting their soft targets without taunts. That is also more realistic by forcing everyone to be much more aware of their surroundings. And it increases the feeling of danger to the game, which is always good thing. Open world groups will need more tanks to create barriers protecting the line, or classes who can do the same thing with magic abilities (voxel ice walls, holes in the ground, etc).

Cleric will get SoW and start kiting. The end of the new, innovative gameplay.

Tier 5 quad-kiting cleric lfg that can jump over holes.

Kreugen_sl said:

They are just going to go with a more modern spin with the combat instead of this tired old diku crap by bringing something new and unique.

Say you and a group of players start to attack a monster, and it happens to focus on you. There are no dedicated healers, so once you are hurt you need find cover and hide until it loses interest. Sometimes the creature might decide to flank you, or destroy your cover, or throw a grenade that bounces off like seven objects before perfectly landing at your feet. (watch for the grenade-shaped warning icon) If that happens you might have to sprint to different cover. Once the monster focuses on someone else your health will regenerate to full and you can leave cover, hold RMB to aim, and tap LMB to attack.

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I'm going to go with it'll either be a lot more, or a lot less, than this. Also, I'm pretty sure there are (semi) dedicated healers they just also happen to add a little CC and DPS into the mix because from what they're saying the mob will figure out you're weak and hiding and find you.

So either complete fail and worse than GW2 combat or success and tricky AI??

Dumar_sl said:

Cleric will get SoW and start kiting. The end of the new, innovative gameplay.

Tier 5 quad-kiting cleric lfg.

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FTFY.

Kiting may not be a feasible mechanic in EQN. So I'd go with FD for the cleric instead of SOW.

Nah brah, the new dawn of complex and innovative AI is 6 range dps in a circle with mob ping ponging in the middle. Or 6 melee dps all standing nut to butt. It's a brave new world.

Someone should ask them if dungeons are fully destructible too, if soo fuck the front entrance, I'm burrowing in to the last bosses room from the top.

Carl_sl said:

Someone should ask them if dungeons are fully destructible too, if soo fuck the front entrance, I'm burrowing in to the last bosses room from the top.

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Last I heard was that they were but had a really fast "healing" rate, you have to think that'll change.

@Jais I predict much death to the players using those strategies on Tier 3 or above or EQN will be a miserable failure of a game. Probably prime strats for Tier 1 though.

Are people still butt hurt over the traditional tank/healer/dps roles being gone as it stands right now?

Drakurii_sl said:

Are people still butt hurt over the traditional tank/healer/dps roles being gone as it stands right now?

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Until I hear how combat will work without those roles, I'm level 100 hurt butt.

Drakurii_sl said:

Are people still butt hurt over the traditional tank/healer/dps roles being gone as it stands right now?

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It's worked out so well in other games.

PS: ya'll know I was just describing Call of Duty, right?

Drakurii_sl said:

Are people still butt hurt over the traditional tank/healer/dps roles being gone as it stands right now?

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Less so than it was when they first announced it, I think. Most people seemed to have settled into a "let's see if they can pull off their ai" stance.

Or it could just be that 70% of the upset posts were Qwerty, and with him gone the overall perception in the thread leans more towards cautious optimism.

I often wonder how awesome a movie Lord of the Rings would have been if Frodo just sat in the Prancing Pony the entire time cause no tanks/healers were available!

Drakurii_sl said:

I often wonder how awesome a movie Lord of the Rings would have been if Frodo just sat in the Prancing Pony the entire time cause no tanks/healers were available!

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Frodo was twinked to shit he could outtank Aragorn.

Zehn - Vhex_sl said:

Then you end up with the situation we had in DDO where you just always tanked mobs in a doorway. They couldn't get around you so you just had one guy load the fuck up on defensive gear, put up his shield and just stand there.

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Yeah, this is what I was talking about earlier in the thread--real combat shows elements of the trinity. People are going to keep "armor" in the front--now armor doesn't have to mean being able to physically take damage, fodder is a type of armor made of people, for example, but in general, you'll go through a series of abstractions behind the mechanism of protecting the weak infrastructure with heavier (Or more expendable) troops.

In a world without taunt, fighting in a choke point is one of the ways this is done. It's been done for thousands of years, just ask the Greeks. The question really needs to be, does peeling back this abstraction make it better? If the technology isn't there to simulate real world mechanisms better--like say, having a group of mobs back off and not get stuck stupidly in a choke, then I'd say no. If it is? Then it might be a lot of fun. I just have no faith that that is the case.

Also using EQ grouping mechanics as an example, it's not that shit ground to a halt if you lost your tank or healer. Sure some doors might close but you still had options depending on your group make up: pet tank groups, agro kite, fear kite, etc. I did a lguk group without a healer in 2000 or 2001, we went through some bandages but we still progressed. I think doors should open and close depending on what classes/roles you have, I know that might be denial of service but for the sake of all the fucks cmon.

As I've stated before, I'm far from the most imaginative of dudes but I've yet to hear any reason as to why "the trinity" is terribad.

Jais_sl said:

Until I hear how combat will work without those roles, I'm level 100 hurt butt.

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You guys are behind the times. McPherson and Omeed confirmed that roles exist in EQN, just that no class will dominate a role (warrior as only viable raid tank, cleric as main raid healer). Taunt is gone so other things will have to fill the gap - Leash, High Threat, or Rescue mechanics by the tank (or Positional mechanics if collision is in) and healers will come to hate bad tanks.

See the reddit thread:http://www.reddit.com/r/EQNext/comme...combat_in_eqn/

@Convo if they pull it off it'll be a challenge (for tanks & healers at least, dps can still probably fuck around).

Alkorin_sl said:

Or are you one of those people that likes the idea of having no set role so that you can be equally ineffective at everything?

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I like the idea of personal responsibility. That every so often a mob might reevaluate who the biggest threat to it's safety might be and just because some plate wearing sword and board keeps calling his mother a whore won't be enough to be the top of the list. I like the idea of great team work, using tactics and terrain in defeating an encounter.